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[Music]

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you're in the paracast the gold standard

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of paranormal radio

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and now

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with gene and chris we've got a really

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fascinating episode to present to you

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today we introduced a writer from the uk

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robbie graham and he has a book out that

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says everything in its title and that is

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silver screen

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saucers

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how flying saucer movies might have

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influenced our popular culture and vice

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versa a lot of questions to ask him to

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ask him first to start

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everything with dave the earth stood

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still not the horrible remake with keanu

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reeves did you see the

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really bad remake of that movie

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uh

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yes

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i did you agree with me though

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i don't think it was as bad as you make

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it out to be because uh you hold the

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first in such high esteem and and i mean

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it it was one of the more pivotal

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moments in your life as a kid when you

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went and saw it

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i didn't think it was that bad um it

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really didn't come close to matching the

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gravitas and the impact of the first one

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obviously but

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you know what can you do the one thing i

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really would be interested in

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talking about today is how

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the pervasive

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sort of cultural meme of flying saucers

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has

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survived intact all the way to the

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present

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and how that makes it very easy to uh at

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a glance

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look at a uh an alleged photograph or

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film footage of a ufo and be able to

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tell right away if it's if it's real or

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not

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your typical 50s version

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the adamski

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kind of craft or the billy meyer beam

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chips uh later which will you know the

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second generation of damski craft i mean

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it's obvious that these are not real

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craft and we have the uh well i think we

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have

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the day the earth stood still earth

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versus the flying saucers we have those

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films to

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to thank for

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creating a misperception in the public

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and that makes it easy for us to to look

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at a like i said a photograph and and

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determine that it's a hoax now very

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interesting about earth versus the

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flying saucers this was a ray

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harryhausen special effects extravaganza

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i thought they were really well done by

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the way one of the actors

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in

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played a role

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in davier stood still but that's not the

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point point is here

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that earth versus the flying saucers

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was based very very loosely on a real

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ufo book all right they bought one of

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the books from major donald kehoe

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and he mentioned

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in a subsequent book he thought they're

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going to do a documentary and maybe the

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first 30 seconds of earth versus the

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flying saucers talks about ufo sightings

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in general then becomes a decent science

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fiction film

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of aliens on the loose i thought it was

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a well done movie a fairly low budget

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movie but very well done i love the shot

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of the ufo crashing into the washington

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monument

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only ray harry haslam can do things like

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that i mean this is before we were using

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digital special effects to create

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anything from supergirl flying to the

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fortress of solitude with james olson

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being held by her to anything else or

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the flash traveling at

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a speed that he can traverse dimensions

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you know we have special effects are

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really well done today

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as all digital you know sometimes you

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have an actor in front of a blue screen

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or a green screen but it's mostly

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digital but here's somebody taking

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stop-motion animation doing very well

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now the

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special effects of the spaceship in navy

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earth stood still weren't bad

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they were fairly well done but one

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interesting thing about it one of the

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noted ufo contactees of the 50s and 60s

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howard menger

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showed paintings of the ufo he was a

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sign painter

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and some of them looked like the

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spaceship taking off at the end of day

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the earth stood still

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it's kind of amazing how that film so

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much influenced the contactees or was

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influenced by them and i'll talk more

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about that film and the original short

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story on which it was based and a very

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interesting twist in that short story

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farewell to the master by harry bates

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when we talk with our guests now we

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mentioned briefly because of the fact

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that a lot of the contactees came about

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after that film and were to some degree

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influenced by it one of the examples is

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george adamski and funny thing happened

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about a month ago

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i received

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a letter from somebody

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who wanted us to have an interview with

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glenn steckling

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of the george adamski foundation

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the who the what

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well of course george adamsky is one of

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the early contactees

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he was i guess he had a hot dog stand

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at the foot of mount palomar where they

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had the observatory in california and he

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claimed to have met up with a alien

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being named of orthon

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wearing a silvery suit similar

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i gathered to the uniform that michael

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rennie as clatto wore in dave the earth

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stood still

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and i'm thinking here this case was

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exposed

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as a fake

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nearly 60 years ago

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would you believe that

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in fact we actually had the expose

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online at jimmosley.com

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if you look for the adamski expose issue

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you'll see a very well written

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summary where even the people who

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allegedly witnessed george adamski in

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the desert

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they said well you know what maybe we

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didn't see what we thought we saw he

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claimed to have met an alien from venus

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a humanoid alien from venus

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now i don't know about you but we all

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know that the surface conditions of

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venus in terms of our space probes what

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they've revealed

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is a little too hot

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it's like boiling water is

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an icicle

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on venus

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to give you an example but that's where

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adams he claims some of his

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aliens came from

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you know according to him they were so

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hot maybe maybe they would have fit in

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on venus who knows well you see that's

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what a lot of these contactees had they

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had

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very pretty women men were handsome

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women were pretty but they came from

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venus because they didn't really know

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much about science these contactees

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and so they would present their message

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in the form of an alien because that was

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a cultural meme at the time but adamski

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was once quoted and i think that's in

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the adamski expose issue it's been years

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since i read it saying that sometimes

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you have to

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enter through the back door

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to express the truth

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and he presented a

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belief of peace and brotherhood

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no wars no nuclear wars that sort of

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thing but if george adamski expresses

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that point of view ah who cares he's

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just a hot dog salesman you know but if

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it comes from the mouths of advanced

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extraterrestrials maybe it has more

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credibility what i worry about though is

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after all these years

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people still believe adamski

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in fact i exchanged maybe eight or nine

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letters with the person promoting

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this adamski foundation website and he

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didn't seem to have a grasp

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of

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him to the georgia damski expose issue

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he said well it's just opinion

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and i said read it it's pointing out

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that people who claim to have witnessed

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a dempsey in the desert

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watching a ufo land didn't see that

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that's not an opinion that's a fact

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doesn't understand the difference

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the one thing that i really kind of

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stumped him was

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when i said adamsi claims his

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space people came from venus we all know

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that's not possible

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at least based on what we know about

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venus

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all right

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that

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i wrote a few days ago never got a

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response i think i ended it there

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because they can't answer that but you

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see there's a problem with the ufo field

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and that is it

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no hoax goes punished

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you can have a hoax

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something that's proven to be a fake

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and it just comes right back like

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nothing happened

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people still think it's real

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people still think there's some basis to

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it

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and georgia dempsey is an example like i

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said

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if you're on the fence or maybe you've

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read

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some books where people are in favor of

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adamski go look at the adamski expose

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issue from 1957

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at jimmosley.com

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and you read that and you'll get a good

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handle oh by the way

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the first part of adamski's book flying

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saucers have landed has material from

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desmond leslie about ancient astronauts

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which means that leslie was one of the

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early people ahead of most everybody

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else even eric von daniken one of the

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early people to write about

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ancient astronauts in any case we have

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robbie graham

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direct from his palatial estate or

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flying saucer silver flying saucer

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in the uk author of silver screen

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saucers

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with gene and chris you're in the

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i know that a lot of our listeners are

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interested in ufos the issue of giants

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skeletons found in america paranormal

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investigations and what the top

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researchers think about such topics one

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online magazine has been presenting such

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unusual information since 1985.

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[Music]

370
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:22,560
the book

371
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:25,600
is silver screen saucers sorting fact

372
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:28,880
from fantasy in hollywood's ufo movies

373
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:31,120
the author is robbie graham

374
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,000
and we welcome him to the paragust thank

375
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,000
you robbie for joining us

376
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,160
well thank you gene it's a pleasure

377
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,560
and i notice here that you have a like a

378
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:42,720
forward written by

379
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:45,519
bryce zabel who's an old friend of ours

380
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,320
he of course was producer of dark skies

381
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,000
yeah that's great yeah absolutely it was

382
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:52,160
uh it's a privilege to have bryce write

383
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:53,839
the forward for the book and of course

384
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,160
bryce's own tv show dark skies that you

385
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,320
just mentioned that plays a significant

386
00:15:01,350 --> 00:15:00,240
part in the story of of this book as

387
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:01,360
well so

388
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:02,560
we can get into that later if you're

389
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,600
interested

390
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:05,360
i wanted to start with dave the earth

391
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:06,800
stood still

392
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:10,320
because this movie had such an influence

393
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:11,120
on

394
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,279
popular culture especially the way in

395
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,880
which we viewed

396
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,440
ufos and possible alien visitors and i

397
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:20,079
mentioned in the previous segment how

398
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,519
howard menger

399
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,920
who they called the jersey adamski had

400
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:25,680
paintings of ufos that look very much

401
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:28,079
like the flying saucer that left at the

402
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,639
end of davier stood still it was

403
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:32,880
directed by robert weiss who by the way

404
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:35,440
also did sound of music

405
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:36,160
and

406
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,360
to a friend of ours tim beckley robert

407
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,600
weiss believed in ufos

408
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:45,440
he did that's right uh he was also a

409
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:47,760
friend of um paul davids the writer

410
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,880
producer who made the 1994 movie roswell

411
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:52,959
which really helped popularize the the

412
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,600
roswell event and and pushed it further

413
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:57,440
into popular culture paul davids

414
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,040
recounted having lunch with robert wise

415
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,440
one time and robert wise basically

416
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:05,920
describing how during the shoot of that

417
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:09,120
film various men from washington

418
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:12,160
scientists engineers approached him and

419
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:13,680
told him various things about flying

420
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:15,120
saucers and it was through these

421
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,880
conversations he had with these guys

422
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:18,320
from washington that he came to believe

423
00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,680
that this was something that was very

424
00:16:24,069 --> 00:16:21,759
serious and it was treated seriously by

425
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:24,079
officialdom okay this is dave the earth

426
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,120
stood still now to go back it was based

427
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:29,440
on a short story called farewell to the

428
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:32,000
master by harry bates

429
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,959
but there was a character named clattu

430
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:36,959
and there was a robot by a slightly

431
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,959
different name than gort gort sounds

432
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,000
better

433
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:42,959
in a sci-fi movie but the robot was the

434
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:44,560
master

435
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:47,600
in the short story they didn't have that

436
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:50,000
twist because they were focusing on a

437
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,240
message from klattu

438
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,839
that we got to stop being warlike

439
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:56,000
otherwise we will be destroyed

440
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,800
right

441
00:17:02,790 --> 00:16:59,279
now a lot of that was added to the movie

442
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:02,800
it's only i think superficially close to

443
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:05,520
that of the short story right that's

444
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:08,480
right yeah i mean hollywood always takes

445
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,480
creative license when adapting short

446
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,240
stories and novels you know some of

447
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,640
these are necessary changes for the

448
00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:16,640
screen some of them are just uh as you

449
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:17,919
say i think just down to artistic

450
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:20,319
preference but i mean to address the i

451
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:21,439
think the question that you were that

452
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,799
you were hinting at there with the

453
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:24,319
parallels between

454
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,480
the reports of the early contact teas

455
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,919
and the details of the early flying

456
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:29,280
saucer movies

457
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:30,720
in order for me to address that properly

458
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:32,320
i think i should start by saying that

459
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,600
ufos

460
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:35,039
this is my position essentially you know

461
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:36,400
ufos

462
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:37,120
are

463
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,799
real in the sense that they exist

464
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,039
independently of cinema and of pop

465
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:43,440
culture more broadly so you know ufos

466
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:44,880
have been investigated by governments

467
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:47,200
around the world for almost

468
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,720
seven decades and you know what the

469
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:51,039
phenomenon represents is of course open

470
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:52,880
for debate and you know various theories

471
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:55,200
have been put forward from secret

472
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,200
military aircraft to other worldly

473
00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:59,840
intelligences natural phenomena but the

474
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:01,919
point is that even in a world without

475
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,320
ufo movies people would continue to

476
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,880
report ufos so people were reporting

477
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:09,280
ufos and even specifically flying

478
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,080
sources long before hollywood started to

479
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,240
get in on this act basically my position

480
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,559
is that ufology such as it is informs

481
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,480
hollywood more than hollywood informs

482
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:21,120
ufology which is to say that hollywood

483
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:23,120
engages with the ufo subculture in a

484
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:25,919
parasitic fashion it sucks on the veins

485
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,840
of this 70 year old subculture and it

486
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,760
grabs hold of fringe ideas and it

487
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:31,679
popularizes them through the science

488
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:33,120
fiction genre so

489
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:35,120
terms like men in black close encounters

490
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,799
of the third kind of the fourth kind

491
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:39,200
area 51 hollywood didn't create these

492
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,960
terms they were all part of the common

493
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,720
language of ufology decades before

494
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,200
hollywood lifted them now in hollywood's

495
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:47,840
ufo movies then broadly speaking you can

496
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:50,480
say that art imitates life now when it

497
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:52,960
comes to ufos i i think especially that

498
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,120
hollywood produces depictions albeit not

499
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:56,480
faithful ones of what people have

500
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:58,160
actually reported now that's not to say

501
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:01,039
that what's been reported in ufology is

502
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,640
necessarily true or accurate and often

503
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,720
it's not but merely that hollywood does

504
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:06,240
see dramatic potential in these

505
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,720
fact-based reports so hollywood does

506
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:10,640
draw extensively from this from this

507
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,799
fact-based discourse so the thing that i

508
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,640
explore in my book is this notion of

509
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:16,160
hyper reality

510
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,840
where we are unable or unwilling to

511
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:19,919
distinguish between fact and fantasy and

512
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:21,760
the role that popular entertainment

513
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,400
plays in this process so the existence

514
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:26,400
of ufos is already rejected by consensus

515
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:29,440
reality but the presentation of this ufo

516
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,840
discourse on screen and particularly

517
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,039
within the context of the science

518
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,280
fiction genre a fantastical genre in a

519
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:37,600
fantastical medium this process serves

520
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,679
to blur the boundaries between ufo fact

521
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,760
and fantasy and it leaves us in this

522
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,360
permanent state of hyper reality where

523
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:45,840
ufos are simultaneously real and unreal

524
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:47,600
in the popular consciousness we had

525
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,400
movies other than the day of the earth

526
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,480
stood still in the 50s

527
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:54,720
so for example there was a film back in

528
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,520
1950 which is of course when behind the

529
00:20:02,150 --> 00:19:59,440
flying saucers was released by frank

530
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,160
scully and matrix keo had his first book

531
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,720
on ufos three years after the arnold

532
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,200
case called the flying saucer it was a

533
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,360
low budget movie where supposedly the

534
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:12,240
cia and the kgb get together

535
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:15,280
to investigate ufos in alaska

536
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:17,120
that's right i remember being a very

537
00:20:22,150 --> 00:20:18,240
dull movie

538
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:22,160
ufo movie that was ever made yeah as you

539
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,919
say it's very dull it's a low budget

540
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,240
affair uh made it released in 1950 shot

541
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:29,280
in 1949 so just two years after ufos

542
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:30,880
exploded into the popular consciousness

543
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:32,320
following the kenneth arnold sighting of

544
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,720
19 of june 1947.

545
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:36,720
interestingly i mean i'd say the only

546
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:38,000
interesting thing about the film really

547
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,600
is the fact that the flying source of

548
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:41,520
the title eventually proves to be a

549
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,080
soviet creation and aliens don't even

550
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:46,240
get considered in the movie which was

551
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:48,880
kind of reflective of popular opinion

552
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:51,200
about ufos in the very early years and

553
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,520
in early months of the phenomenon

554
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:55,600
in a number of public opinion polls that

555
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,240
were taken people seemed to to be

556
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,640
inclined towards believing that ufos if

557
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:02,640
they were indeed real were the product

558
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:04,799
of foreign technologies or even american

559
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:06,000
technologies

560
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:07,360
aliens didn't really figure on people's

561
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:09,679
radars and that didn't start to then

562
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:11,840
change until towards the late 40s and

563
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,840
then into the early 50s and then by that

564
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:15,520
time the extraterrestrial hypothesis had

565
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:17,360
sunk firmly into into popular

566
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:19,120
consciousness at least within the ufo

567
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:21,440
subculture and that's what stayed to

568
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,799
this day that's what's really stuck

569
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,159
although the theories have been put

570
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,840
forward um so yeah that was the first

571
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:27,679
movie in 1950

572
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,760
and that was a you know a very blatant

573
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:31,440
attempt to cash in on this growing

574
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:33,200
source of hysteria that had begun a few

575
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,880
years prior um so but i mean in order to

576
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:38,400
to address your um

577
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:41,360
question about uh um

578
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,679
the early contact tease you know what

579
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:45,520
what i say again about the influence and

580
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:48,640
impact of ufo movies is that um

581
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:50,320
they are the dominant cultural force

582
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:52,400
shaping our perceptions of of the ufo

583
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:55,360
phenomenon um they they do so

584
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,520
often without conscious intent usually

585
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:59,039
as a natural cultural process but

586
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,320
sometimes

587
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:01,919
there have been efforts to willfully

588
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,440
manipulate our perceptions of this

589
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:05,760
phenomenon through through mass media i

590
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:07,360
want to ask you more about

591
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:08,799
the dave the earth stood still in our

592
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,000
next segment

593
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,080
focusing primarily on the fact that

594
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,640
military people

595
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:16,880
were in the background in the creative

596
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,120
process and whether there was a motive

597
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,360
there or they just wanted to observe it

598
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:22,960
or

599
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,200
make decisions with regard to how the

600
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,200
military was treated i'll give you some

601
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,960
other things about that movie that are

602
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:30,320
very interesting

603
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,760
all right so

604
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:34,159
let's just get back into it here

605
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:35,600
so we have

606
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:37,760
robbie graham author of silver screen

607
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:40,000
saucers with gene and chris you're in

608
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thank you for listening to gcn

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hi this is ted phillips listening to the

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paracast and it's as good as it gets

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[Music]

715
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we have a second radio show we'd like

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you to listen to it's called after the

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power cast

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and it can include interviews

719
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728
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the book is silver screen saucers

729
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sorting fact from fantasy and

730
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hollywood's ufo movies by robbie graham

731
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,480
returning to the day the earth stood

732
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:56,720
still which was i think one of the best

733
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,000
of the early ufo oriented movies and

734
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:02,480
seemed to influence popular culture but

735
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:03,919
robbie i don't know if you know this

736
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,799
fact and that is do you remember

737
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,360
where michael rennie's clattu was shot

738
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:11,600
down by the military in the later part

739
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,120
of the movie off dupont circle

740
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,520
do you know what ufo organization

741
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:20,159
set up its headquarters very near that i

742
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:21,360
do not

743
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:24,480
nycap major kio's organization

744
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:27,200
it was just off dupont circle

745
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,159
near the location where the character

746
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:32,559
clatto was shot in that movie don't ask

747
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,520
me

748
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,200
how that happened to be it may have just

749
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:37,360
been a matter of having

750
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:39,840
a rental available how did that happen

751
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:40,960
to be

752
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,200
washington dc they probably wanted

753
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:47,520
something that was fairly inexpensive it

754
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,760
was a small suite of offices not

755
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,000
not a real elaborate place

756
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,760
and that happened

757
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,919
and the first time i saw the movie

758
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:57,440
i didn't think about it

759
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,279
later when i finally visited nikap

760
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:01,200
headquarters i thought to myself this is

761
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:02,559
near

762
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:05,520
that location where they shot clatu

763
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:06,720
yeah i should have had that in the book

764
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,760
really

765
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:09,279
you could have the second edition you

766
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:10,799
didn't talk to me i didn't make a big

767
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:12,320
deal of it i think i've mentioned it on

768
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,960
the power cast occasionally now i would

769
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,320
have to go back

770
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:18,880
and look at 1536 connecticut avenue

771
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:22,080
northwest and how close that was

772
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:23,679
to the point at which michael rainey was

773
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:24,720
shot

774
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:25,760
yeah on

775
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:28,880
there's just so many um examples of of

776
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:30,880
of kind of real life intersecting with

777
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,360
hollywood fantasy when it comes to ufos

778
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,120
again i'm getting edging towards

779
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:37,919
answering your your question about um

780
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:39,919
the parallels between between that movie

781
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:41,200
and uh

782
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:43,039
and some of the early um contact he

783
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,960
reports and i think

784
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:46,080
again to

785
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,080
to lead into it what what i say is that

786
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:50,799
the effect of cinema broadly i think is

787
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:54,080
macro um and indirect rather than micro

788
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:57,360
and direct so it can and does influence

789
00:30:02,470 --> 00:29:59,679
our beliefs and expectations but not

790
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,480
necessarily our direct actions

791
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:04,159
although that can happen so i think more

792
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:06,320
broadly the effect of movies is soft and

793
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:08,720
cumulative but no less significant for

794
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:11,279
that so a non-neutrological example

795
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:14,159
would be if you are inclined to go and

796
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:17,679
do a mass shooting then you're likely to

797
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:19,200
do that whether or not you've seen a

798
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,039
movie featuring a mass shooting if

799
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:23,200
you're a psycho you're a psycho you know

800
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,799
movies

801
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:27,360
often don't directly influence um

802
00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:28,799
behavior

803
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,240
but they can

804
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:32,240
have a cumulative effect on our beliefs

805
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:33,840
and expectations about the world which

806
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,440
of course can lead to then

807
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:37,919
direct action but it's usually not so

808
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:40,799
observable in an immediate sense um so

809
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,600
i when it comes to the contactees

810
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:45,600
adamski for example howard mender as you

811
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:46,480
mentioned

812
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:48,000
i find it

813
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,919
impossible to draw any conclusions where

814
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,159
where they're concerned uh aspects of

815
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,080
some of their testimonies i find

816
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,039
interesting even some of them vaguely

817
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:58,880
convincing if they were to be separated

818
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,399
from them or outrageous claims but of

819
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:01,919
course we can't separate them from them

820
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,640
or outrageous claims so um but what i

821
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:06,480
say is i don't automatically and totally

822
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,120
discount the claims of people who are

823
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:11,760
prone to fantasy because if ufos are

824
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:13,760
ontologically real which

825
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,960
um you know on some level of our

826
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:17,200
perceived reality they seem to be then

827
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,480
surely

828
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:20,559
these objects are also perceptible to

829
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:23,279
fantasists now in other words even a

830
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,840
fantasist can see a ufo

831
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:27,600
so getting back to the day the earth

832
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,039
stood still

833
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:31,039
and robert weiss mentioned the military

834
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:33,039
participation

835
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:35,520
did they dictate at all

836
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:37,360
the focus of the movie which of course

837
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:39,039
is kind of a peacenik point of view

838
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:41,919
which is you get your act together

839
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,519
earthlings

840
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:45,519
but not completely because the carrot

841
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,679
and stick approach because

842
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,080
clatto says you either

843
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,909
you can join the space brotherhood or

844
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,600
will nuke you or whatever they do to

845
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,120
destroy us

846
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,799
well the answer to that is would we have

847
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:02,720
to be pure speculation because we just

848
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,240
simply don't know

849
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,799
all we have is robert wise's statements

850
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:08,880
secondhand statements that he interacted

851
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:10,399
with some people from washington who

852
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,840
advised him on various aspects of

853
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,720
ufos and he came away with the

854
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,159
conclusion that this was treated

855
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:17,600
seriously in washington which of course

856
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:19,600
we know it was

857
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:20,399
from

858
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:21,840
you know officially declassified files

859
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,200
it's no secret that this was taken

860
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,760
seriously um by the powers that be in

861
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:27,679
the early years

862
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:28,480
so

863
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,080
these people from washington were acting

864
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:33,679
in an official capacity whether or not

865
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,799
they

866
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,720
drip fed him any

867
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:38,640
information or disinformation

868
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:40,159
who knows

869
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:41,919
what we do know is that going back to

870
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,159
the very early years of hollywood's

871
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:47,039
engagement with ufos uh the military and

872
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:48,720
intelligence communities in the united

873
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:50,720
states have been very interested in

874
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:53,679
hollywood's depictions of of this

875
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:55,360
sensitive subject

876
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:57,519
and on numerous occasions throughout the

877
00:33:02,549 --> 00:33:00,960
50s 60s 70s 80s and beyond

878
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,559
various branches of officialdom have

879
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:04,640
sought to monitor and sometimes

880
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:08,480
manipulate ufo themed products

881
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,559
okay this is just very interesting and

882
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:12,720
we go to the next film in the series

883
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,080
which i

884
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:16,240
mentioned that was

885
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:18,240
earth versus the flying saucers which is

886
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:18,880
a

887
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,200
like the first 30 seconds of the film

888
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:35,279
talk about ufos

889
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:36,880
and then they don't

890
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:39,039
is it because they felt that the word

891
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:40,640
flying saucers

892
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:43,760
because it's used in major keos books

893
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,000
was maybe owned by him and they needed

894
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:48,640
to have the rights to use that term

895
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,799
i really don't know um

896
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,200
there's very little been done on this um

897
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:56,000
this is the 1956 film versus the flying

898
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:57,760
sources as you say and it was

899
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:00,159
loosely very very very loosely inspired

900
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,960
by kehoe's um non-fiction book

901
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:06,880
flying sources from outer space which is

902
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,919
a serious examination of of the subject

903
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,000
and it was the first ufo book i ever

904
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,240
read right so this and it was you know

905
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,000
influential as well a lot of kehoe's

906
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,000
work was influential and he was taken

907
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:20,879
seriously um you know relatively

908
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,200
seriously and um

909
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:25,839
but this film was an absolutely schlocky

910
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,639
b movie you know with rubbery aliens and

911
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:30,480
and flying saucers done by

912
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,720
ray harryhausen actually i like the

913
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:34,399
special effects of the

914
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:35,119
the

915
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,359
uh black-eyed

916
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,159
beings uh kind of spindly beings so uh

917
00:34:59,910 --> 00:34:58,400
that's an interesting element again

918
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,920
you know how influential that has been

919
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,079
on pop culture or vice versa is hard to

920
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,160
say well you can always mention whitley

921
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:06,400
strieber we think whitley strieber was

922
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:08,320
one of the early people to

923
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:10,720
be in touch with possible

924
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:12,640
spindly grey aliens

925
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:15,040
but we have a movie from 1956 i don't

926
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:16,960
know how well that movie did at the box

927
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,839
office

928
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,839
well these films were made for

929
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,520
predominantly for teens at the drive-in

930
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,200
you know these these b movies the the

931
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,359
only the the difference there was that

932
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,599
the daily easter still in 1951 which was

933
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:30,240
really the first serious movie ever made

934
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:32,880
about ufos and and um

935
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:35,119
in 1951 you had two two feature films

936
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,640
two kind of major feature films about

937
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:37,920
the subject which was the thing from

938
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:40,240
another world um directed by howard

939
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,280
hawks and uh and uh

940
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:45,920
the day they stood still uh one alien

941
00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:47,760
came to kill us someone came in peace

942
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,839
but also to kill us if we didn't if we

943
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,520
didn't become peaceful

944
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:53,599
um so so these were the two films that

945
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:56,720
hit us in 1951 and

946
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:59,200
but then for the rest of the decade most

947
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,720
of the films that followed were were

948
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,280
these schlocky b movies as they say and

949
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:05,440
they had a very specific target audience

950
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:07,359
um they didn't have uh you know they

951
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,800
weren't taken seriously they weren't

952
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,320
award-winning films by any stretch of

953
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,320
the imagination um but i think it's fair

954
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:14,400
to say that they did have um

955
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:17,040
cultural impact absolutely and these

956
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,720
films certainly went on to influence a

957
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:20,960
whole generation of hollywood filmmakers

958
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:22,960
the likes of steven spielberg and others

959
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,800
who would then go on to make their own

960
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:26,400
alien movies and have their own ufo

961
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,400
obsessions so they do have they do have

962
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:30,960
cultural impact we'll cover more of this

963
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:33,839
in just a moment silver screen saucers

964
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,000
really fascinated by this

965
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:38,480
and we have robbie graham to sort things

966
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:39,599
out for us

967
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:41,359
with gene and chris you're in the

968
00:36:53,470 --> 00:36:52,630
thank you for listening to gcn

969
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:53,480
visit

970
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:00,870
conspiracy journal is your number one

971
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:02,960
source for the hidden world of the weird

972
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:04,800
and strange we bring you

973
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:06,400
thought-provoking and controversial

974
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:08,800
material for free-thinking individuals

975
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,200
who are seeking what is really going on

976
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:13,839
in our world today some of this material

977
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,400
may adversely affect you other pieces

978
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:18,800
are meant to enlighten either way be

979
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:21,200
prepared to be intrigued by such things

980
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,359
as the reality of ufos ghosts strange

981
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:27,599
creatures from time and space hidden

982
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:31,200
conspiracies time travel nikola tesla

983
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:33,440
suppressed technology and a whole lot

984
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:34,240
more

985
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:40,320
website at conspiracyjournal.com

986
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,560
there you can sign up for our free

987
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:45,119
weekly newsletter sent directly to your

988
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:46,560
email address

989
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:49,520
find out what they don't want you to

990
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:59,910
[Music]

991
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:01,680
december

992
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:03,520
1941

993
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:06,720
a date which will live in infamy

994
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:09,200
remember pearl harbor now you can buy

995
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,359
for the first time ever the 75th

996
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:13,599
anniversary pearl harbor legal tender

997
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:15,599
solid gold coin from the u.s money

998
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,430
right now or go online to

999
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:23,359
usmoneyreserve.com

1000
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:29,670
water is the single most important thing

1001
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:31,920
your body needs so you want to be sure

1002
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,160
it's the best for you and your family

1003
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:36,960
since 2005 thousands have depended on

1004
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:39,280
berkey purified water the berkey guy

1005
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provides the lowest priced filtration

1006
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1007
00:38:58,829 --> 00:38:46,960
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1008
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:01,190
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1009
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:03,680
to the irs get on board with the tax

1010
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,560
admiral don't take on the irs alone i'll

1011
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,640
cut penalties and reduce your overall

1012
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:10,960
tax bill sometimes i can even get it

1013
00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:13,760
zeroed out completely we're an a-rated

1014
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:15,280
company helping people clean up their

1015
00:39:21,790 --> 00:39:18,240
mess with the irs if you owe 10 000 or

1016
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,800
more then call the tax admiral call

1017
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:23,680
800-287-7180 again that's

1018
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:31,430
i'm nick sowoleski a select quote agent

1019
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,880
with a true story that could save you

1020
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:34,880
hundreds of dollars a year a woman named

1021
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:37,760
linda just called her husband ray has a

1022
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,800
300 000 group life insurance policy but

1023
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:42,720
is changing jobs and can't take it with

1024
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:45,200
them well i am partially shot the highly

1025
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:46,960
rated term life insurance companies we

1026
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,680
represent and found ray who is 41 and

1027
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:51,119
takes medication to control his

1028
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:54,880
cholesterol a 10-year 500 000 policy for

1029
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,599
under 26 dollars a month that's almost

1030
00:40:01,990 --> 00:39:59,760
twice the coverage for less than half of

1031
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:02,000
what he had paid if select quote hasn't

1032
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,760
shopped for your life insurance you're

1033
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:05,680
probably paying too much

1034
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,030
that's 1-800-403-4885

1035
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,790
1-800-403-4885

1036
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,390
or go to selectquote.com we shop you

1037
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:24,160
save get full details on the example

1038
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:25,760
policy at slowpoke.com commercials your

1039
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:26,640
price could vary depending on your

1040
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:27,920
health issuing company and other factors

1041
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,839
not available in all states

1042
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:31,359
this is dan pillow do you have the irs

1043
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,200
money you can't pay are tax debts

1044
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:35,040
crippling you i've defended people from

1045
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:37,440
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

1046
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:39,520
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

1047
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:40,880
the book on irs settlement and i'm

1048
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:42,640
telling you there's no such thing as a

1049
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:46,320
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

1050
00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:48,560
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

1051
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,079
programs there's never been a better

1052
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:52,880
time to solve your problem call 834 no

1053
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:56,720
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

1054
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,069
[Music]

1055
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,640
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

1056
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:10,640
encyclopedia in other books you're

1057
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:12,170
listening to the pericast

1058
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,829
silver screen

1059
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:21,200
saucers exciting book

1060
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:23,760
by robbie graham chris you had some

1061
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:25,200
comments to make

1062
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:26,960
yeah i remember

1063
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:30,079
attending a history of film class in

1064
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,200
college

1065
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,000
and my instructor making the um

1066
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:36,800
observation that the howard hawks movie

1067
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:38,079
the thing from another world i believe

1068
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,720
was the full title was the first film

1069
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,040
where the director insisted that the

1070
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,839
actors uh step on each other's lines and

1071
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:48,079
talk over each other and

1072
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,280
if you look at historical film facts

1073
00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:53,200
that movie the hawks movie is considered

1074
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,280
to be the first modern

1075
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:57,920
film in terms of dialogue not ending and

1076
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,800
then the next person speaking uh it

1077
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,800
seemed more lifelike and and actually

1078
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,040
created more attention within the put

1079
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:07,520
you know the portrayal of the script and

1080
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:08,319
uh

1081
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:12,640
you'll notice in the remake

1082
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:15,440
uh that was done in the 80s i believe or

1083
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,079
1990 with uh kurt russell

1084
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:21,359
82 yeah yeah 82.

1085
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:23,920
okay was that long ago uh they make a

1086
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,480
point of of having a cacophony of

1087
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:28,319
dialogue at points where you can't

1088
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:29,599
really understand

1089
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:31,440
what anybody's saying because it's it's

1090
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,079
just so uh it's over the top of people

1091
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,240
uh stepping on each other's lines i just

1092
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:38,960
thought i'd pop that little factoid out

1093
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:40,560
i'll give you another one another

1094
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:43,280
factoid the person who played the thing

1095
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,000
harness james arness

1096
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:48,160
the brother of peter graves from mission

1097
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:51,200
impossible and of course best known

1098
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:54,480
as marshall matt dillon

1099
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:57,359
but i start somewhere so in a sense he

1100
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,400
started

1101
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:00,720
as a voiceless monster just like boris

1102
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:05,440
karloff and frankenstein in 1931-32

1103
00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:10,870
the original thing from another world in

1104
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,560
1951 had um parallels with with the with

1105
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:17,119
roswell this was 1951 obviously roswell

1106
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:20,720
was 1947 but roswell as we know didn't

1107
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:22,880
break into pop culture until

1108
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:24,319
well i mean the story didn't emerge

1109
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:26,800
until the late 1970s but then it was it

1110
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:29,280
was another you know um

1111
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,960
a good amount of time another decade at

1112
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,640
least before people started to really

1113
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:34,319
look into it in

1114
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:37,920
in ufology um and then it was uh not

1115
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,440
until the early 1990s that um

1116
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:43,040
it started to break big in pop culture

1117
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:44,400
and that was through hollywood that was

1118
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:46,240
through that was through the the roswell

1119
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:47,440
movie that i mentioned and through the

1120
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:49,920
x-files and other movies um and it was

1121
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,160
so that took a long time to go from

1122
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,720
subculture to pop culture but the but

1123
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:56,560
that film um the thing from another

1124
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:59,520
world did have these striking parallels

1125
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,000
because what you had was um in the

1126
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:04,560
narrative of that movie a ufo crash in a

1127
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,800
remote location a team sort of

1128
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:09,040
uncovering the the wreckage um

1129
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:11,839
recovering a body um and you've got the

1130
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:14,720
press in that movie trying to expose the

1131
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,160
story and the military trying to cover

1132
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:17,920
it up so you've got some of these these

1133
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:19,599
you know these broad parallels and which

1134
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,880
have been observed by various

1135
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:22,319
researchers and some speculate again

1136
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:23,680
that this was an early attempt to kind

1137
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:26,240
of leak some kind of truth

1138
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:28,000
through hollywood there's a lot of

1139
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:30,640
speculation about what role hollywood

1140
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:32,640
has played in shaping popular

1141
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,680
perceptions of ufos and whether or not

1142
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,680
any of these movies contain factual

1143
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,760
information kind of inside information

1144
00:44:43,030 --> 00:44:41,280
shall we say and whether or not this

1145
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,040
information has been sort of seeded by

1146
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,119
uh intelligence agencies by the military

1147
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,280
etc um so

1148
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,599
it's hard to draw conclusions when it

1149
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:51,119
comes to the idea of a hollywood ufo

1150
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,480
conspiracy um it's not so hard to to

1151
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,160
make statements along the lines of yes

1152
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:58,240
hollywood has certainly been um

1153
00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:01,359
influenced by by various branches

1154
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:02,800
of officialdom when it comes to the

1155
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,680
agenda that's that's harder to pin down

1156
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:07,119
well of course if you want to look at

1157
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:08,480
parallels

1158
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:11,040
we go to close encounters of the third

1159
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:14,319
kind it was loosely based on a book by

1160
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:17,839
j allen heineck yeah

1161
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:20,480
excuse me the ufo experience i believe

1162
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:21,280
and

1163
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:23,680
heinek appears towards the end of the

1164
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:25,040
film where

1165
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:27,520
the flying saucer is making its landing

1166
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:29,599
approach and you see him

1167
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:32,880
kind of striking his chin and you have

1168
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:34,960
also other possibility

1169
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:37,440
characters

1170
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:40,319
that yeah well we have the francois

1171
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:42,319
trufold character and the character's

1172
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:44,960
name is claude

1173
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:45,760
was they have lacombe

1174
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:48,079
loosely based on jacques valley

1175
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:49,760
well he was yeah he was based on jack

1176
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:52,480
valet and um

1177
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:53,839
you know

1178
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,280
jacques valet

1179
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:56,800
wanted to

1180
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,839
uh

1181
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:59,760
to convince spielberg to go down the

1182
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:01,839
line of interdimensional uh beings

1183
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,920
rather than extraterrestrial he

1184
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:05,599
consulted with spielberg had lunch with

1185
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:07,040
him during the production and

1186
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,960
development of the movie and you know

1187
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:10,560
because of course spielberg wanted

1188
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:12,319
vale's perspective on it because of

1189
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:13,920
course you know valet was and continues

1190
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,880
to be

1191
00:46:18,069 --> 00:46:16,160
uh one of the most thoughtful and

1192
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:18,079
influential people in the field and so

1193
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:20,079
spielberg consulted with both highneck

1194
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:21,760
who served as the official consultant on

1195
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:24,319
the movie and then less formally with um

1196
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:26,079
with with valet and vale

1197
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:27,680
said you know stephen would be much more

1198
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:30,640
interesting if if you were to have these

1199
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,079
beings as being real but

1200
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:34,079
interdimensional um rather than

1201
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:35,599
extraterrestrial and spielberg said well

1202
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,480
you know that's probably a more

1203
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:38,560
interesting idea but the audiences are

1204
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:40,560
expecting aliens in the more traditional

1205
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:41,520
sense and so that's what we're going to

1206
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:43,599
give them now the point is here the

1207
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:44,560
movie

1208
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,800
never specifies where these aliens are

1209
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:48,319
from

1210
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:52,319
absolutely

1211
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:54,000
it doesn't specify i think the

1212
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:54,800
assumption is that they're

1213
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:56,480
extraterrestrial

1214
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,800
i think when it comes to

1215
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:00,319
interdimensional

1216
00:47:06,550 --> 00:47:03,280
the

1217
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,560
you would be dealing with something

1218
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:08,560
slightly more bizarre and

1219
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,720
ethereal than than uh these kind of

1220
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:12,240
physical being and technological craft

1221
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:13,520
although what who has to say into

1222
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,640
dimensional entities wouldn't be the

1223
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:16,880
same so uh i think and again i think

1224
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,920
when people

1225
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:20,240
get into fights over extraterrestrials

1226
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:22,240
versus interdimensionals it

1227
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:23,920
seems like a really pointless kind of

1228
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:25,040
fight

1229
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:26,640
i mean i think most people would even

1230
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:28,319
struggle to define what interdimensional

1231
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:30,079
would even mean and and could

1232
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,200
extraterrestrials also be

1233
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:33,599
interdimensional well according to

1234
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,359
you know um

1235
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,960
according to speculative science then

1236
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,359
then certainly that could be the case so

1237
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,920
so i i just uh i don't tend to get

1238
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:44,640
bogged down in these kinds of debates um

1239
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:47,280
i i find it after 15 years of looking at

1240
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:49,359
this subject i find it impossible to

1241
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,040
draw any conclusions

1242
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,680
about the nature of ufos what interested

1243
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:55,280
me is the way

1244
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:57,920
the aliens communicated with the people

1245
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:59,359
they wanted

1246
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:00,800
to take with them

1247
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:02,720
this kind of technology sharing or

1248
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:04,880
whatever so the richard dreyfuss roy

1249
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:08,319
neary character and the melinda dillon

1250
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:10,640
julian geiler character where

1251
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:13,520
they receive subconscious

1252
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:14,720
messages

1253
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:15,839
that's right

1254
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,119
where

1255
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:19,359
obviously roy neary is

1256
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:22,480
kind of making his mashed potatoes into

1257
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:24,319
a mountain

1258
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,480
where he's drawn to that place where

1259
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:28,559
they try to reach out to him yeah they

1260
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,800
call them implantees in the movie um

1261
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:32,319
which of course are you know their

1262
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:34,559
contact tees and everything but name uh

1263
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:37,119
where they they as in as in real life

1264
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,559
you know with with real-life so-called

1265
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,200
contactees who claim to have telepathic

1266
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,119
messages or implanted messages in their

1267
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,960
in their subconscious or in their you

1268
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,880
know in the depths of their brains um

1269
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:48,400
they say the same occurs in close

1270
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,599
encounters because of course steven

1271
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:52,079
spielberg based his his screenplay on

1272
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,760
ufology that was his primary influence

1273
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,640
spielberg grew up as a ufo buff and he

1274
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:58,319
was obsessed with the subject his first

1275
00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:01,280
movie as a 16 year old boy a

1276
00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:02,800
feature-length film which was released

1277
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:04,480
locally in his in you know his local

1278
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,880
cinema was called firelight and that was

1279
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:08,559
about ufo abductions and that was the

1280
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:10,079
blueprint for close encounters of the

1281
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:12,400
third kind so steven spielberg was it

1282
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,920
was a huge ufo buff he'd read a lot of

1283
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:15,680
the literature and this was something he

1284
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,200
treated very seriously he thought you

1285
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:19,280
know he described the film as science

1286
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:21,599
speculation rather than science fiction

1287
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:24,240
and um so he everything in that movie is

1288
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,160
inspired in some way by something that's

1289
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:28,559
appeared in in the ufological literature

1290
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,920
including the outbreak uh in 1973 in

1291
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,119
indiana

1292
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:35,440
of several events that were loosely

1293
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:36,480
based

1294
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:38,559
on for the movie

1295
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,920
and um

1296
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:41,680
especially the airliner scene at the

1297
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:43,599
very beginning and of course the the

1298
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:44,880
blackout

1299
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:48,480
scene and um you can go back and trace

1300
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:51,280
some very very similar type uh reports

1301
00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:54,240
from indiana in 73. so a lot of that was

1302
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,000
actually based on real

1303
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,640
uh ufo reports with you know

1304
00:50:01,829 --> 00:50:00,480
with the spielbergian sort of hollywood

1305
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:01,839
twist or

1306
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:03,920
um thread that kind of tied them all

1307
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:06,400
together with the characters um and that

1308
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,280
was film uh was was significant as well

1309
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:11,359
in the context of um official

1310
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:13,280
involvement or non-involvement shall we

1311
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:14,880
say because steven spielberg did seek

1312
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:17,200
the cooperation of the air force and

1313
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:18,160
nasa

1314
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,920
in order to cut costs and boost

1315
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:21,520
authenticity

1316
00:50:25,829 --> 00:50:23,680
but the air force and nasa both denied

1317
00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:25,839
strongly denied their cooperation to him

1318
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,680
on this film on the grounds that you

1319
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,839
know the film was about ufos and

1320
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:31,440
historically you know since the closure

1321
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:33,920
of blue book in 1969 the air force had

1322
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:35,920
been you know um

1323
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:37,760
reaffirming its policy that they had no

1324
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:40,319
interest in ufos and would not cooperate

1325
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:41,680
on any

1326
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:43,599
hollywood product which really engaged

1327
00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:45,599
with the subject especially a product

1328
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:46,880
which put forward the idea that there

1329
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:49,680
was a giant ufo conspiracy and so the

1330
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,119
air force strongly denied its

1331
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:53,599
cooperation to spielberg and then nasa

1332
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:55,599
according to spielberg actually sent him

1333
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,440
a 20-page letter

1334
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:59,040
um requesting that he not make the movie

1335
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:00,559
at all because they were they were

1336
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,319
worried that it would uh spark a huge

1337
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:04,240
wave of ufo sightings and that they and

1338
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:05,599
nasa would have to deal with this and it

1339
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:07,760
would make people freak out about ufos

1340
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:10,559
like it like jaws had about sharks which

1341
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:11,680
had been made two years earlier

1342
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:13,359
spielberg made jaws which is at the time

1343
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:15,440
the most successful film of all time

1344
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,359
um style and then star wars would uh

1345
00:51:22,069 --> 00:51:19,440
would overtake it let's go into more of

1346
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:22,079
this in our next segment with robbie

1347
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,280
graham

1348
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:25,280
silver screen saucers

1349
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:27,040
with gene and chris you're in

1350
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:29,230
the paracast

1351
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:39,280
[Music]

1352
00:51:43,710 --> 00:51:42,800
you are listening to gcn

1353
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:43,720
visit

1354
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:45,180
gcnlive.com today

1355
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:48,000
[Music]

1356
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,000
attack of the rockoids has been well

1357
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:52,319
received by critics and readers alike

1358
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:53,920
it's a thrill-a-minute story you'll

1359
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:55,359
never forget

1360
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:57,280
a former u.s military intelligence

1361
00:52:02,309 --> 00:51:59,760
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1362
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:02,319
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1363
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:04,640
help after a terrible battle in outer

1364
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:05,760
space

1365
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,920
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1366
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:09,839
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1367
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,559
with a woman whose far away planet is

1368
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,040
intent on destroying the earth

1369
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,520
and now the gripping tale continues in

1370
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,000
the coming of the protectors it's the

1371
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,559
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

1372
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:24,720
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

1373
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,040
hapless heroes against powerful

1374
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,280
fanatical enemies that threaten the

1375
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:31,200
lives of freedom-loving beings

1376
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:34,160
everywhere attack of the rockoids and

1377
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:36,960
the coming of the protectors classic

1378
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:39,599
science fiction at its best available

1379
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:40,480
now

1380
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:43,680
for more details visit rockoids.com

1381
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:52,870
are you worried about your mom or dad

1382
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:54,960
living alone in their house

1383
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:57,520
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1384
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1403
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[Music]

1404
00:54:03,589 --> 00:53:59,910
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1405
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:03,599
standard of paranormal radio

1406
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:04,800
and now

1407
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,430
with gene and chris on the power cast

1408
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:14,720
we're talking about silver screen

1409
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,520
saucers with robbie graham we also want

1410
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:19,440
to talk about after the power cast our

1411
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:21,760
other radio show we want you to hear the

1412
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:22,640
show

1413
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,839
because it's kind of a special thing

1414
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:27,760
that if you're a powercast listener

1415
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:29,200
you'll really dig

1416
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:31,599
and to be able to download the show and

1417
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:33,040
listen to it you have to be a member of

1418
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:34,160
the powercastplus at

1419
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:40,470
the powercast.com

1420
00:54:44,790 --> 00:54:42,640
the powercast plus we also give you the

1421
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:44,800
ad free version of this show with more

1422
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,440
features we're talking here about close

1423
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:48,960
encounters of the third kind the

1424
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:51,200
military evidently didn't want steven

1425
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:53,040
spielberg to make it and by the way one

1426
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:54,640
of the kids in the film was played by

1427
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:58,000
someone named justin dreyfuss who is

1428
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:59,760
richard dreyfuss nephew

1429
00:55:01,990 --> 00:55:00,480
yeah

1430
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:02,000
but unfortunately he doesn't have much

1431
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:03,359
in the way of credits i think he has

1432
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:04,559
only one

1433
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:07,599
more credit as an actor like ten years

1434
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:09,280
later and other films it doesn't matter

1435
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:11,520
so now a lot of rumors came about after

1436
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:13,359
close encounters of the third kind that

1437
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:14,880
this was really an effort by the

1438
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:16,960
authorities to convey

1439
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,599
the message that we were being visited

1440
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:21,599
and that may to some degree have been

1441
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:23,920
true but what you're saying sounds like

1442
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:26,559
they wanted to be as far away from this

1443
00:55:30,790 --> 00:55:28,720
movie as possible first of all those

1444
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:30,800
rumors were actually that they were

1445
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,280
circulating even among the cast and crew

1446
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:35,520
of the movie whilst it was shooting um

1447
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,680
and that was evidenced in the close

1448
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,280
encounters diary that was written by bob

1449
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:40,960
balaban one of the actors in the movie

1450
00:55:45,670 --> 00:55:42,160
that was released shortly after the

1451
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:45,680
film's release in 1977 you know balaban

1452
00:55:48,870 --> 00:55:46,960
recounted a time where they were all

1453
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:48,880
sitting around the campfire basically in

1454
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:50,960
alabama late one night after a hard

1455
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:52,559
day's shoot all the cast and crew were

1456
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:54,319
there and jl and hynek was delivering a

1457
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:56,400
lecture on ufos someone talked about

1458
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:58,400
this rumor that had been going around

1459
00:56:01,750 --> 00:55:59,920
that the film was actually part of an

1460
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:01,760
acclimation process to you know to get

1461
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:03,440
us used to the idea of that we're not

1462
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:04,799
alone in the universe and there's some

1463
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,280
kind of government sponsors of the film

1464
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:09,839
and absolutely nothing to to corroborate

1465
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:12,000
those rumors at all but as we know the

1466
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:13,760
air force and nasa did deny their

1467
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,240
cooperation at the same time playing

1468
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:18,240
devil's advocate just because the air

1469
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,760
force and nasa deny their cooperation

1470
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:21,920
does not mean that for example the cia

1471
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:24,000
or other shadowy agencies don't have an

1472
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:25,920
alternate agenda where these films are

1473
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,319
concerned um often these these agencies

1474
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:30,160
work you know towards competing agendas

1475
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,599
and they're very self-serving and often

1476
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:33,839
they don't communicate so and certainly

1477
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,520
when it comes to ufos there seems to be

1478
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,960
a history of the cia not sharing

1479
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:38,400
information with the air force and vice

1480
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:41,119
versa um and that's just not just ufos i

1481
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:42,640
mean that's just that's just across the

1482
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,799
board which is why these agencies are so

1483
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:47,760
ineffective often as a whole um

1484
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:49,760
you know that's why society and uh and

1485
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:51,680
politics is so chaotic because there's a

1486
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:52,799
lot of miscommunication or

1487
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:54,960
non-communication between agencies so

1488
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:56,880
that doesn't discount the idea that

1489
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:58,079
someone somewhere could have had the

1490
00:57:01,670 --> 00:56:59,920
idea of seeding it but it's not the

1491
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:01,680
point is it's just not necessary for

1492
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:03,760
them to have done to have done that um

1493
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:05,680
because steven spielberg already already

1494
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:08,400
had the material here he already had the

1495
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:10,160
will and a desire to make this movie he

1496
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,680
had the budget to do it he didn't need

1497
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:13,839
funding from the cia he had funding from

1498
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:15,440
columbia pictures

1499
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:16,720
he was going to make this movie because

1500
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:17,839
he'd already made the most successful

1501
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,520
film of all time two years prior this

1502
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:21,200
film was going to get made and spielberg

1503
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:23,520
was the man to make it and if it did

1504
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,680
further some shadowy agenda on the part

1505
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:27,760
of some agency somewhere then i i think

1506
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:29,760
that's entirely incidental you know

1507
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,119
hollywood is first and foremost a

1508
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:33,680
business it does what it wants except

1509
00:57:36,309 --> 00:57:35,200
when it doesn't

1510
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:36,319
in the sense that there have been

1511
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:38,079
examples over the years of censorship

1512
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:38,720
and

1513
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,520
scripts in line with with preferred

1514
00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:45,520
images of certain agencies and that

1515
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:46,960
that's

1516
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:48,559
and that refers to the you know to the

1517
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,240
relationship between the department of

1518
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,079
defense and hollywood which is very

1519
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:54,400
strong and and historic where you have

1520
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:56,240
the the pentagon working closely with

1521
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:58,880
filmmakers across the board on all sorts

1522
00:58:01,750 --> 00:58:00,720
of genre pictures which depict the

1523
00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:01,760
military

1524
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,480
in a positive britain

1525
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:06,960
precisely precisely and and and some of

1526
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:09,200
those cooperative efforts also extend to

1527
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:11,599
the ufo subgenre as well so those are

1528
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,720
the films that i'm particularly

1529
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:14,160
interested in films like battleship

1530
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:15,760
battle los angeles the transformers

1531
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:17,280
franchise all of these films have

1532
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,559
received full cooperation from the

1533
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,160
department of defense and all have had

1534
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:21,920
their scripts tampered with to a

1535
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:23,599
significant degree

1536
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:25,200
and that that of course raises questions

1537
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:26,319
and about the extent to which these

1538
00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:27,920
films are manipulated euphorically

1539
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:29,440
because those scripts are heavily

1540
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:31,839
ethological and you also have uh the

1541
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:35,599
curious parallel with the 2004-2005

1542
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:39,040
serpo claim uh that's been promoted by

1543
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:41,359
none other than richard doty and

1544
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,280
and ken caston who we've repeatedly

1545
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:45,119
asked to be on the show the serpo

1546
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:47,280
scenario sounds like what happened to

1547
00:59:01,109 --> 00:58:48,000
the

1548
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:01,119
stuff is is crap i mean it it surfaced

1549
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,359
in a in a string of anonymous emails

1550
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:05,599
essentially and this is 2005. so this is

1551
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:07,680
decades after close encounters had been

1552
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,920
made so what's more what's more likely

1553
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:11,119
you know

1554
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:12,559
is it that the serpo story was

1555
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:14,240
influenced by a hollywood movie or vice

1556
00:59:17,829 --> 00:59:16,319
or vice versa the fact is that these

1557
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:17,839
these emails and the surprise story

1558
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:19,280
didn't emerge until decades after close

1559
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:20,960
encounters the logical assumption is

1560
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:23,359
that they were influenced by by a movie

1561
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:24,799
yeah there's absolutely that's my point

1562
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:26,400
exactly yeah there's absolutely nothing

1563
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,160
whatsoever to corroborate that story

1564
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:30,480
it's it's entirely absurd we also have

1565
00:59:34,309 --> 00:59:32,720
the the pop culture sort of almost

1566
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:34,319
archetypal view

1567
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:36,480
or kind of vision of what a flying

1568
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:39,839
saucer is uh to this day that 50s kind

1569
00:59:44,789 --> 00:59:42,240
of sort of primitive conservative view

1570
00:59:46,309 --> 00:59:44,799
of the phenomenon is is reflected in in

1571
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:46,319
thousands of photographs that have been

1572
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:48,160
hoaxed over the years including the

1573
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:50,000
infamous billy meyer shots the the

1574
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:52,160
adamski shots earlier on

1575
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:53,839
and we're still seeing that today in the

1576
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,079
uh the kind of the send up to the to the

1577
01:00:02,470 --> 00:59:58,000
show here i mentioned that it's one of

1578
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:02,480
the easiest ways for a ufo um analyst is

1579
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,559
to look at the photograph and if there's

1580
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,119
a resemblance to some of those pop

1581
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:09,599
culture images you can almost discount

1582
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:11,920
it it's not quite that simple because of

1583
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:13,920
course the the description of the

1584
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:16,640
archetypal flying saucer predates

1585
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:19,680
hollywood's realization of that so you

1586
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:22,640
had these very clear descriptions of the

1587
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:24,799
the archetypal flying domed flying

1588
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,720
saucer and even the the movements that

1589
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:29,520
they make in air force documentation

1590
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:31,920
from the late 1940s so before the flying

1591
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:34,000
saucer movies were even made people were

1592
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:36,319
reporting across the world

1593
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:38,640
yes but i'm talking about angular motion

1594
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:41,200
uh the dome or the bottom leading in in

1595
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,960
the direction of travel which is how

1596
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:44,400
most of these if not all of these

1597
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:47,200
objects move whenever you see a a video

1598
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:49,599
or a photograph of an object allegedly

1599
01:00:53,349 --> 01:00:51,599
moving edge on

1600
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:53,359
you can pretty much discount it and that

1601
01:00:57,030 --> 01:00:54,880
comes from one of the top analysts in

1602
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:57,040
the field who's been studying this for

1603
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:00,160
over 50 years well i mean i discount all

1604
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:02,480
modern photographic evidence bfos just

1605
01:01:05,589 --> 01:01:03,839
put it all in a big bag and throw it out

1606
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,599
the window because it's it's entirely

1607
01:01:09,829 --> 01:01:07,680
pointless and it's a huge distraction

1608
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:09,839
i'm only interested in in and only

1609
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,520
peripherally interested now in

1610
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,359
photographic evidence that predates the

1611
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:15,599
digital era because that's harder to

1612
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:18,480
fake anything in in this digital era now

1613
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:20,960
is so easy to fake for the lay person

1614
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:22,720
you can do it on your iphone that you

1615
01:01:27,270 --> 01:01:24,240
can waste your whole life trying to

1616
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:27,280
analyze still and moving images of ufos

1617
01:01:30,870 --> 01:01:29,599
so much is uploaded to youtube on a

1618
01:01:33,030 --> 01:01:30,880
daily basis

1619
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:33,040
uh it's just i mean some of it is

1620
01:01:36,309 --> 01:01:34,960
probably real so to speak in the sense

1621
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:36,319
that people have perhaps some people

1622
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:37,920
have captured a genuine unidentified

1623
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:40,079
flying object but a lot of it is is

1624
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:42,799
obviously hoaxed um and and it's just a

1625
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,040
huge huge distraction and it's so easy

1626
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:47,280
people to do so i so my position is just

1627
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:48,640
you are never gonna get if you're

1628
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:50,079
looking for proof

1629
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,720
of a of a real mysterious phenomenon and

1630
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:54,559
you you're looking for a smoking gun it

1631
01:01:58,549 --> 01:01:56,880
will never ever come in the form of

1632
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:58,559
photographic evidence

1633
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:02,240
there's some very good film and

1634
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:04,240
and still images uh

1635
01:02:08,789 --> 01:02:06,720
you know from from the analog days that

1636
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:08,799
uh yeah besides that those babies out

1637
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:10,079
with the bath water no i know that which

1638
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:12,000
is what i was saying so i so i so you

1639
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:13,920
know earlier earlier photographic

1640
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:16,160
imagery is is genuinely interesting some

1641
01:02:21,190 --> 01:02:18,480
of it is is really really powerful and

1642
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:21,200
convincing um especially you know when

1643
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:22,880
you can you know you can look at it and

1644
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:24,960
some of that has been uh sometimes some

1645
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,240
you know some of that footage has been

1646
01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:27,839
captured in the presence of multiple

1647
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:28,880
witnesses

1648
01:02:31,030 --> 01:02:29,920
but even the ones that haven't been

1649
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,040
captured in the presence of multiple

1650
01:02:35,510 --> 01:02:33,440
witnesses it's still very hard to fake

1651
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:35,520
uh ufo footage some of it particularly

1652
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,599
convincing footage um

1653
01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:39,359
in those earlier years and of course it

1654
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:41,440
is possible to fake it obviously but

1655
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,440
it's much more interesting as i say now

1656
01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:45,599
it's so easy to fake that the position

1657
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:47,040
the logical position has to be that we

1658
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:49,280
just have to ignore it all because

1659
01:02:53,030 --> 01:02:51,280
unless of course the footage is taken

1660
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:53,040
today in the presence of like you know

1661
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:56,079
500 people who all then are named and

1662
01:02:59,589 --> 01:02:57,680
then give their testimony to support the

1663
01:03:02,390 --> 01:02:59,599
authenticity of the footage

1664
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:02,400
and as i say we live in in a visual age

1665
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,799
now um where everything is real and

1666
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:06,640
unreal and it's this age of hyper

1667
01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:08,640
reality and in that age you are never

1668
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:11,440
going to get proof of ufos certainly in

1669
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:13,680
in photographic evidence and and i would

1670
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:16,480
argue that it's very hard to get uh

1671
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:18,000
universally acceptable proof of a

1672
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:20,880
phenomenon in this age at all in any

1673
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:23,200
form because even if you were to have

1674
01:03:25,829 --> 01:03:24,319
so-called

1675
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,839
you know official disclosure as it's

1676
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:27,680
conceived by the likes of steve bassett

1677
01:03:32,470 --> 01:03:30,880
and stephen greer um even if that were

1678
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:32,480
to happen

1679
01:03:36,549 --> 01:03:34,000
you would still have half the world's

1680
01:03:38,309 --> 01:03:36,559
population totally disbelieving it let's

1681
01:03:40,630 --> 01:03:38,319
break here let's break here robbie

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graham with gene and chris you're in the

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comment or question about the paracast

1800
01:08:02,470 --> 01:07:59,200
send it to news at the paracast.com

1801
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:02,480
that's news at theparecast.com

1802
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:04,319
and don't forget to visit our famous

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1804
01:08:14,309 --> 01:08:12,950
now robbie i wanted to get back to

1805
01:08:16,709 --> 01:08:14,319
something here just

1806
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:16,719
related to what was going on earlier

1807
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:18,480
the movie close encounters are the third

1808
01:08:22,470 --> 01:08:21,520
kind did spielberg ever think of maybe

1809
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:22,480
doing

1810
01:08:26,550 --> 01:08:24,719
a sequel where we see what happened to

1811
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:26,560
the earth people who went on this

1812
01:08:29,669 --> 01:08:28,719
foreign exchange program and then we

1813
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:29,679
noticed

1814
01:08:33,430 --> 01:08:31,199
as he progressed

1815
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:33,440
he did e.t the extraterrestrial where we

1816
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:35,199
have the childlike

1817
01:08:38,709 --> 01:08:36,719
friendly alien

1818
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:38,719
and then we have later on

1819
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:40,880
where he remakes the war of the worlds

1820
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:43,120
about evil aliens

1821
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:45,199
so but let's start at the beginning here

1822
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:47,520
did he ever think of a sequel to close

1823
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:49,600
encounters as far as i'm aware spielberg

1824
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:50,960
never really considered a sequel to it

1825
01:08:55,349 --> 01:08:52,799
what he did do is he released a

1826
01:08:58,229 --> 01:08:55,359
director's cut a special edition in uh

1827
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:58,239
in about 1980 uh just a few years after

1828
01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:59,839
it was originally released

1829
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:01,520
he was almost forced to do he didn't

1830
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:04,319
want to yeah he tacked on this this uh

1831
01:09:07,829 --> 01:09:06,000
this really crappy ending where you saw

1832
01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:07,839
inside the mother ship and you know of

1833
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:09,759
course the appeal of the original movie

1834
01:09:13,110 --> 01:09:11,440
was that you see richard dreyfuss go on

1835
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:13,120
to the onto the mothership but you don't

1836
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:15,279
see what's inside and so it's left to

1837
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:17,520
the imaginations it's about you

1838
01:09:21,030 --> 01:09:19,920
fulfilling your own fantasy essentially

1839
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:21,040
and that was that was part of the

1840
01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:22,560
brilliance of the movie

1841
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:24,080
and he completely ruined it with a

1842
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:25,920
special edition where he showed

1843
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:27,359
the inside of the spaceship and that

1844
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:28,799
just kind of shatters the illusion it's

1845
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:30,400
like oh yeah it's a spaceship so

1846
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:33,359
spielberg regretted doing that um

1847
01:09:40,630 --> 01:09:37,199
when he did et actually he did

1848
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:40,640
think about making a sequel to et and uh

1849
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:42,000
some information about this has come out

1850
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:43,759
over the last few years

1851
01:09:47,910 --> 01:09:46,159
and et originally was going to be a very

1852
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,920
different movie that the film that

1853
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,520
spielberg originally had conceived of

1854
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,279
was not the cuddly one that we know

1855
01:09:55,350 --> 01:09:53,520
today um it was actually going to be

1856
01:09:57,709 --> 01:09:55,360
loosely inspired by the

1857
01:10:01,110 --> 01:09:57,719
again a real ufological incident from

1858
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:01,120
1955 the kelly hopkinsville kind of farm

1859
01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:03,120
siege invasion of as i say of the mid

1860
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:04,719
1950s where you had

1861
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:06,960
the family who were besieged so by

1862
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:09,360
so-called uh little imp like aliens and

1863
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:11,600
and um and this was this is a you know a

1864
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:12,960
famous case at the time and that was the

1865
01:10:17,110 --> 01:10:14,560
case that actually gave rise to the

1866
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:17,120
little green men term in popular culture

1867
01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:19,280
so that was going to be an influence on

1868
01:10:22,149 --> 01:10:20,400
the on the

1869
01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:22,159
film that would later become et but it

1870
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:24,320
wasn't until spielberg brought in his

1871
01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:25,120
friend

1872
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:29,440
at the time of harrison ford to write

1873
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:30,560
this script

1874
01:10:34,229 --> 01:10:32,400
um for you know she said look this

1875
01:10:36,070 --> 01:10:34,239
should be about this and and then it was

1876
01:10:38,070 --> 01:10:36,080
very you know so so what what actually

1877
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:38,080
it came to be came to be realized was

1878
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:39,600
was quite different from what they'd

1879
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:41,760
originally conceived um

1880
01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:42,800
so it's basically gonna be more of a

1881
01:10:46,630 --> 01:10:44,800
horror film and then he they did

1882
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,640
conceive of a sequel which again was

1883
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,480
going to be more of a more of a scary

1884
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:50,640
horror film um and that never came to

1885
01:10:54,310 --> 01:10:51,920
fruition thank goodness because it would

1886
01:10:55,590 --> 01:10:54,320
have been terrible i think

1887
01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:55,600
but then

1888
01:10:59,189 --> 01:10:57,360
in one other thing too spielberg

1889
01:11:01,350 --> 01:10:59,199
actually wanted close encounters to be

1890
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:01,360
his first major film but he couldn't get

1891
01:11:05,990 --> 01:11:03,520
funding for it that's right because jaws

1892
01:11:08,550 --> 01:11:06,000
seemed to be such a slam dunk

1893
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:08,560
obvious choice uh and

1894
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:10,960
you know the resulting success then gave

1895
01:11:14,070 --> 01:11:12,719
him the cachet and

1896
01:11:16,149 --> 01:11:14,080
in the hollywood cloud to go ahead and

1897
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:16,159
get close encounters made that's right

1898
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:17,920
he was as i say he was obsessed with the

1899
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,600
subject this was this was a cathartic

1900
01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:21,280
movie for him it was it was kind of

1901
01:11:24,790 --> 01:11:22,880
welling up inside him throughout his

1902
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:24,800
childhood and teen years and i say the

1903
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:26,320
very first low budget film he made was

1904
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:28,960
was was a ufo movie and then he he did

1905
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:32,560
some tv work um and he his first feature

1906
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:34,800
film was was well his first tv movie was

1907
01:11:39,030 --> 01:11:37,199
jewel in the early 1970s and then he

1908
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:39,040
made the sugarland express which was his

1909
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:40,960
first feature film which kind of was

1910
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:42,960
critically acclaimed but it was not a

1911
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:45,840
success at all financially and then uh

1912
01:11:49,990 --> 01:11:47,760
finally had huge success with them with

1913
01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:50,000
jaws in 1975 and then that allowed him

1914
01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:52,080
as you say to to fulfill his dream of

1915
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:53,760
making his ufo movie which is close

1916
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,600
encounters you know he even he even

1917
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:57,360
wouldn't budge on on the title you know

1918
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:58,800
he was determined to call this film

1919
01:12:03,270 --> 01:12:00,960
close encounters the third kind a phrase

1920
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:03,280
at the time that was not known to the

1921
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:05,920
general public and it was you know an

1922
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:07,679
explicitly ufological phrase that was

1923
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,040
coined by jail and heineck and his

1924
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:11,600
classification system for ufos

1925
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:13,360
and so spielberg you know was insistent

1926
01:12:16,229 --> 01:12:14,880
on calling it close encounters the third

1927
01:12:17,590 --> 01:12:16,239
kind this really worried columbia

1928
01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:17,600
pictures but yeah they said look he got

1929
01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:18,880
one push back

1930
01:12:21,510 --> 01:12:20,239
yeah you know they said no one knows

1931
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:21,520
what the hell a close encounter of the

1932
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,880
third kind is it sounds vaguely

1933
01:12:27,189 --> 01:12:24,719
pornographic shall we call it something

1934
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:27,199
else and so but he stuck to it because

1935
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:28,800
he had he had a huge amount of creative

1936
01:12:33,270 --> 01:12:31,199
power at that point and continues to

1937
01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:33,280
and then as we see over the decades he's

1938
01:12:37,430 --> 01:12:35,440
continued to to make movies and tv shows

1939
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:37,440
about ufos because you know he continues

1940
01:12:42,149 --> 01:12:39,920
to be interested let's move on to the

1941
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:42,159
x-files and we think of the x-files

1942
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:44,320
putting in all the ufo conspiracies in

1943
01:12:49,750 --> 01:12:46,719
one place but then we have this peculiar

1944
01:12:52,310 --> 01:12:49,760
aspect of the revitalize x-files they

1945
01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:52,320
came back for a six-episode run

1946
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:55,360
with i think mixed success for fox and

1947
01:13:00,310 --> 01:12:58,239
suddenly the ufo conspiracy

1948
01:13:01,430 --> 01:13:00,320
returns to roswell where they did

1949
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:01,440
recover

1950
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:03,600
alien technology supposedly but

1951
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:05,440
everything else was a conspiracy by the

1952
01:13:08,950 --> 01:13:06,480
government

1953
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:08,960
as opposed to an e.t conspiracy

1954
01:13:13,189 --> 01:13:11,120
any thoughts about this change

1955
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:13,199
so the original x-files series ended in

1956
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:16,320
uh 2002 i think off the top of my head

1957
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:18,640
but it ran for around nine seasons and

1958
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:21,760
ended in 2002 and of course you know for

1959
01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:23,920
that original series carter and his team

1960
01:13:28,630 --> 01:13:26,960
of writers they drew directly explicitly

1961
01:13:30,709 --> 01:13:28,640
from from various subcultures and

1962
01:13:32,630 --> 01:13:30,719
especially the ufo subculture

1963
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:32,640
and almost everything that had been

1964
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:35,280
debated in ufology somehow found its way

1965
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:38,000
into x-files again it was an example of

1966
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,000
hollywood acting as a parasite towards

1967
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:42,080
an existing ufo subculture

1968
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:43,520
and then what happened was that

1969
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:46,000
subculture became popularized through

1970
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:47,520
the genre of science fiction and the

1971
01:13:51,350 --> 01:13:49,360
medium of tv

1972
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:51,360
and the the you know

1973
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:53,360
whatever facts there were whatever the

1974
01:13:56,950 --> 01:13:54,560
truth there was to some of these

1975
01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:56,960
original uh reports and debates and

1976
01:14:01,270 --> 01:13:59,280
encounters was was blurred

1977
01:14:03,750 --> 01:14:01,280
and kind of muddied through through the

1978
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:03,760
the process of hollywoodization um and

1979
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:06,400
now what happened in the interim between

1980
01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:08,880
the end of the old x-files and the start

1981
01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:11,760
of the new one was you had a new

1982
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:15,520
generation of conspiracy

1983
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,719
law of conspiracy theorists i suppose

1984
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:20,159
now i don't use the you know i use the

1985
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,400
word the word in a totally non-political

1986
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:24,560
sense you know the word conspiracy

1987
01:14:27,750 --> 01:14:26,159
theorist has been sown with negative

1988
01:14:29,669 --> 01:14:27,760
connotations but what literally means is

1989
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:29,679
people who theorize about conspiracies

1990
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:31,679
and of course conspiracies are real in

1991
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:33,520
the sense that they have demonstrably

1992
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,360
shaped some history you know

1993
01:14:39,430 --> 01:14:38,000
significantly conspiracies do happen and

1994
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:39,440
to theorize about them makes you a

1995
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:41,280
conspiracy theorist but but certainly

1996
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,400
not mad

1997
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:44,640
so what chris carter and his guys have

1998
01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:47,040
observed in the years since the original

1999
01:14:51,110 --> 01:14:49,120
x-files ended is a new generation of

2000
01:14:54,470 --> 01:14:51,120
conspiracy theorists

2001
01:14:56,550 --> 01:14:54,480
merging different conspiratorial threads

2002
01:15:00,709 --> 01:14:56,560
into a sort of a unified

2003
01:15:03,189 --> 01:15:00,719
world conspiracy view um and and 911 has

2004
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:03,199
played a huge part in this and theories

2005
01:15:08,950 --> 01:15:06,000
and debates around around 9 11 the new

2006
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:08,960
world order and illuminati and all of

2007
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:09,840
these different things which have

2008
01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:12,000
started to become much more prevalent in

2009
01:15:16,390 --> 01:15:14,320
the age of the internet where ideas are

2010
01:15:18,630 --> 01:15:16,400
shared more freely and quickly this

2011
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:18,640
started to only arise just after the

2012
01:15:21,510 --> 01:15:20,159
x-files had finished so they kind of

2013
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:21,520
missed out on that in the original

2014
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:24,000
series so what you have what you've seen

2015
01:15:28,229 --> 01:15:25,199
since then is all of these different

2016
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:28,239
threads start to expand and merge and

2017
01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:29,760
different conspiracy theories come to

2018
01:15:34,149 --> 01:15:31,120
the fore not necessarily different ones

2019
01:15:35,669 --> 01:15:34,159
but different takes on old old ideas

2020
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:35,679
and what you've had is is somehow

2021
01:15:41,189 --> 01:15:39,600
ufology being mixed with 911 and and and

2022
01:15:43,910 --> 01:15:41,199
all sorts of different aspects of you

2023
01:15:45,830 --> 01:15:43,920
know mk ultra mind control um and so

2024
01:15:47,430 --> 01:15:45,840
you've got a whole new generation of

2025
01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:47,440
people who

2026
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:49,520
not only interested in one conspiracy

2027
01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:51,520
but in multiple conspiracies and and in

2028
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:52,960
unifying all of these conspiracy

2029
01:15:57,189 --> 01:15:54,880
theories and that was a great appeal to

2030
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:57,199
chris carter for this new

2031
01:16:00,630 --> 01:15:58,880
this new series of the x-files and

2032
01:16:03,189 --> 01:16:00,640
that's reflected in in the narrative

2033
01:16:04,550 --> 01:16:03,199
that he's spun there so that's why

2034
01:16:06,630 --> 01:16:04,560
you're seeing what you've seen in the

2035
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:06,640
new x-files well i'll tell you once

2036
01:16:11,990 --> 01:16:09,520
again i really wasn't enamored of this i

2037
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:12,000
loved the original series but i thought

2038
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:14,640
especially the final episode the six

2039
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:17,840
episode run it created the need for

2040
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:19,679
another episode and i guess that will

2041
01:16:24,390 --> 01:16:22,159
come next year they can reach contracts

2042
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:24,400
with the principal players i don't know

2043
01:16:28,970 --> 01:16:26,159
robbie graham with gene and chris you're

2044
01:16:39,990 --> 01:16:28,980
in the paracast

2045
01:16:44,750 --> 01:16:43,510
thank you for listening to gcn

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be sure to visit

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[Music]

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hey this is marie d jones the author of

2141
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this book is from the future

2142
01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:02,080
and you are listening to the paracast

2143
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:11,910
with gene and chris on the power cast

2144
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:14,080
robbie graham we're talking about silver

2145
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:16,080
screen sausage which also includes your

2146
01:21:20,070 --> 01:21:17,600
tv screen

2147
01:21:21,830 --> 01:21:20,080
silver or not chris you know since we

2148
01:21:24,149 --> 01:21:21,840
were talking about conspiracies robbie

2149
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:24,159
in the last segment there's a couple

2150
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,560
three questions on here we sort of

2151
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,800
touched on the subject of possible

2152
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:30,960
government involvement behind the scenes

2153
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:33,520
or maybe more overtly with the ufo

2154
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:35,679
subject but dave m wants to know how

2155
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:38,000
closely is the ufo topic in hollywood

2156
01:21:41,669 --> 01:21:39,440
movies and tv

2157
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:41,679
controlled by government agencies such

2158
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:45,280
as the cia and mulvaney wants to know

2159
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,760
about uh your view

2160
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:49,440
and he'd be interested to know how you

2161
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:52,000
uh view possible links between hollywood

2162
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,270
that may be manipulating uh public

2163
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:01,679
perceptions of ufos and of course then

2164
01:22:06,070 --> 01:22:03,440
there's the obvious follow-up question

2165
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:06,080
of if if they are to what end

2166
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:07,440
yeah that's the harder question to

2167
01:22:10,870 --> 01:22:09,360
answer what as i say what we can say

2168
01:22:13,030 --> 01:22:10,880
definitively as a matter of historical

2169
01:22:14,629 --> 01:22:13,040
record is that the cia and the

2170
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:14,639
department of defense and various other

2171
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:16,800
branches have officialed them have uh

2172
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,280
you know historically had a close

2173
01:22:23,990 --> 01:22:21,840
relationship or a very strong interest

2174
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:24,000
in hollywood for obvious reasons because

2175
01:22:28,149 --> 01:22:26,480
they recognize that hollywood shapes

2176
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:28,159
popular perceptions of

2177
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:30,480
of our world on any subject hollywood

2178
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:31,920
fills the gaps in our knowledge of the

2179
01:22:35,189 --> 01:22:33,920
world was what the film director ken

2180
01:22:37,350 --> 01:22:35,199
russell once said and that's a really

2181
01:22:39,030 --> 01:22:37,360
profoundly true statement hollywood

2182
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:39,040
fills the gaps in our knowledge of the

2183
01:22:42,590 --> 01:22:40,400
world it really is true because

2184
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:42,600
hollywood serves to narrativize and

2185
01:22:46,470 --> 01:22:44,800
contextualize the events and debates and

2186
01:22:48,390 --> 01:22:46,480
processes that constitute our

2187
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:48,400
frustratingly non-narrative world you

2188
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:50,400
know life rarely makes sense but movies

2189
01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:52,480
usually do when we take comfort in that

2190
01:22:55,350 --> 01:22:54,159
but the problem is is that you know

2191
01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:55,360
movies aren't real life they're

2192
01:22:58,629 --> 01:22:56,960
reflections of it they're snapshots of

2193
01:23:00,149 --> 01:22:58,639
it and they're skewed and distorted

2194
01:23:02,550 --> 01:23:00,159
through the ideological framework of the

2195
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:02,560
people who've made them but we take them

2196
01:23:07,110 --> 01:23:04,960
on some subconscious level as being

2197
01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:07,120
representative of of the world in which

2198
01:23:10,229 --> 01:23:09,199
we live so so that's that's problematic

2199
01:23:11,990 --> 01:23:10,239
especially when it comes to something

2200
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:12,000
like ufos as i say because that's

2201
01:23:15,510 --> 01:23:14,159
already rejected from consensus reality

2202
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:15,520
and we don't really know what to believe

2203
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:18,400
about ufos and in the in the absence of

2204
01:23:22,870 --> 01:23:20,960
solid facts we are forced to believe one

2205
01:23:24,550 --> 01:23:22,880
thing or another because all we have is

2206
01:23:26,790 --> 01:23:24,560
belief when it comes to ufos even the

2207
01:23:29,350 --> 01:23:26,800
people who have experienced ufos

2208
01:23:31,590 --> 01:23:29,360
directly in a profound way

2209
01:23:33,430 --> 01:23:31,600
still themselves don't understand what

2210
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:33,440
they've what they've experienced and

2211
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,880
that's been my experience of speaking to

2212
01:23:37,990 --> 01:23:36,480
a lot of people who who have had these

2213
01:23:40,390 --> 01:23:38,000
experiences they've experienced

2214
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:40,400
something it's profoundly affect their

2215
01:23:43,270 --> 01:23:42,480
lives but they themselves are struggling

2216
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:43,280
to make sense of what they've

2217
01:23:46,629 --> 01:23:44,560
experienced and so they filter their

2218
01:23:48,550 --> 01:23:46,639
experience through pop cultural channels

2219
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:48,560
because that's the easiest thing to do

2220
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:49,679
and there are no there are no

2221
01:23:52,870 --> 01:23:51,120
explanations for coming from official

2222
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:52,880
them so therefore you have to to look

2223
01:23:57,590 --> 01:23:55,440
elsewhere for answers and

2224
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:57,600
so so when it comes to the cia for

2225
01:24:02,070 --> 01:23:59,600
example the cia has been involved in

2226
01:24:05,669 --> 01:24:02,080
hollywood in a covert capacity since the

2227
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:05,679
early 1950s and they were involved in

2228
01:24:10,950 --> 01:24:08,480
monitoring and seeding the narratives of

2229
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:10,960
a whole host of genre pictures westerns

2230
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:14,159
melodramas you know musicals comedies

2231
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:16,400
throughout the 1950s 60s and beyond and

2232
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:18,239
they were really bringing scripts in

2233
01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:19,920
line with with

2234
01:24:23,990 --> 01:24:22,000
the cia's preferred image of the united

2235
01:24:26,149 --> 01:24:24,000
states and they were trying to project a

2236
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:26,159
particular image of america and american

2237
01:24:31,030 --> 01:24:29,120
foreign policy to foreign audiences

2238
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:31,040
so there's there's numerous examples of

2239
01:24:36,790 --> 01:24:33,120
this and this is john frankenheimer

2240
01:24:39,430 --> 01:24:36,800
right and and but i mean in 1950s um the

2241
01:24:41,990 --> 01:24:39,440
head of censorship at paramount studios

2242
01:24:43,910 --> 01:24:42,000
was a guy called luigi larashi and he

2243
01:24:45,990 --> 01:24:43,920
was actually a cia asset this wasn't

2244
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:46,000
known until decades later it was

2245
01:24:50,709 --> 01:24:49,120
uncovered by a british academic um

2246
01:24:52,310 --> 01:24:50,719
but at the time you had as i say so you

2247
01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:52,320
had one of the key most influential

2248
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:54,639
people in in paramount studios

2249
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:57,120
actively working for the cia to

2250
01:25:00,950 --> 01:24:58,960
to bring scripts in line

2251
01:25:02,550 --> 01:25:00,960
um now of course

2252
01:25:04,149 --> 01:25:02,560
it's safe to say that if these changes

2253
01:25:06,149 --> 01:25:04,159
were being made to all sorts of genre

2254
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:06,159
pictures on what you would think would

2255
01:25:10,870 --> 01:25:09,040
be fairly mundane issues then it's

2256
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:10,880
probably fair to say that these these

2257
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:12,800
changes were also being made to the ufo

2258
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:14,639
subgenre which was a hugely popular

2259
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,400
maybe that kind of dominated the science

2260
01:25:20,390 --> 01:25:18,239
fiction genre at the time

2261
01:25:22,629 --> 01:25:20,400
but when it comes to definitive examples

2262
01:25:25,110 --> 01:25:22,639
of ci manipulation of early

2263
01:25:26,550 --> 01:25:25,120
ufo products it's hard to state anything

2264
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:26,560
with certainty because the cia is

2265
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:28,239
notorious for not leaving a paper trail

2266
01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:30,719
they consciously you know have nothing

2267
01:25:35,590 --> 01:25:34,080
on paper so so to not kind of give their

2268
01:25:37,430 --> 01:25:35,600
illegal activities away because they're

2269
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:37,440
not supposed to operate on american soil

2270
01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:38,880
um so

2271
01:25:42,790 --> 01:25:41,360
so uh so the cia in the early as i say

2272
01:25:46,310 --> 01:25:42,800
it was it was cover it wasn't until the

2273
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:46,320
mid 1990s that the cia started to work

2274
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,520
openly with hollywood and they

2275
01:25:52,310 --> 01:25:49,920
established a media liaison office

2276
01:25:53,750 --> 01:25:52,320
and what they did was they started to

2277
01:25:56,229 --> 01:25:53,760
create relationships with hollywood

2278
01:25:58,070 --> 01:25:56,239
producers directors writers and they

2279
01:26:00,709 --> 01:25:58,080
encouraged hollywood to

2280
01:26:02,229 --> 01:26:00,719
where possible depict the cia in a pub

2281
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:02,239
in a more positive light and the goal

2282
01:26:06,149 --> 01:26:04,239
was to increase recruitment and

2283
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:06,159
retention of personnel but at the same

2284
01:26:10,709 --> 01:26:08,639
time this relationship also opened the

2285
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:10,719
doors for script manipulation and and

2286
01:26:14,470 --> 01:26:12,480
general monitoring and manipulation of

2287
01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:14,480
these movies the relationship between

2288
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,480
the the department of defense the

2289
01:26:20,550 --> 01:26:18,159
pentagon and hollywood is different to

2290
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,560
the cia in that it historically has been

2291
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:22,800
more open and continues to be more open

2292
01:26:27,270 --> 01:26:26,080
um and more brazen uh shall we say uh

2293
01:26:28,390 --> 01:26:27,280
you know that

2294
01:26:30,310 --> 01:26:28,400
when i say backed i don't mean

2295
01:26:32,629 --> 01:26:30,320
financially although it does it does it

2296
01:26:34,229 --> 01:26:32,639
just essentially equate to that because

2297
01:26:37,270 --> 01:26:34,239
you know if a filmmaker

2298
01:26:39,270 --> 01:26:37,280
filmmaker requires tanks and troops and

2299
01:26:41,110 --> 01:26:39,280
hardware for their war movie or their

2300
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:41,120
action movie they have two choices they

2301
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:43,520
can create it in a computer or through

2302
01:26:46,550 --> 01:26:44,960
the props department which costs a lot

2303
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:46,560
of money or they can approach the

2304
01:26:48,790 --> 01:26:47,920
military who will give it to them for

2305
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:48,800
free

2306
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:51,040
on the grounds that the military

2307
01:26:55,910 --> 01:26:53,280
themselves can then insert themselves

2308
01:26:57,669 --> 01:26:55,920
into the production and influence it and

2309
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:57,679
and gear it towards recruitment and

2310
01:27:01,830 --> 01:26:59,760
propaganda now

2311
01:27:03,750 --> 01:27:01,840
this was nowhere near as blatant as it

2312
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:03,760
was during world war ii

2313
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:05,840
where there was direct involvement they

2314
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:07,920
even had hollywood stars

2315
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:10,400
appear in movies designed to encourage

2316
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:12,560
patriotism and support for

2317
01:27:17,110 --> 01:27:14,800
america's military effort for example i

2318
01:27:19,430 --> 01:27:17,120
saw this one movie featuring the late

2319
01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:19,440
superman star george reeves where he

2320
01:27:25,510 --> 01:27:21,840
plays a soldier who was captured by the

2321
01:27:27,830 --> 01:27:25,520
enemy and bravely goes to his death

2322
01:27:29,669 --> 01:27:27,840
and this was supposed to say okay no

2323
01:27:33,189 --> 01:27:29,679
matter what happens look at this

2324
01:27:35,270 --> 01:27:33,199
patriotic american who gave his life for

2325
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:35,280
his country that kind of thing superman

2326
01:27:41,110 --> 01:27:37,679
for example speaking of superman he

2327
01:27:43,030 --> 01:27:41,120
fought nazis during world war ii

2328
01:27:44,709 --> 01:27:43,040
i mean it's the same today it's even

2329
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:44,719
more brazen i would say

2330
01:27:48,070 --> 01:27:46,400
i mean if you if you watch if you can

2331
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:48,080
bear to watch movies like battleship or

2332
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:50,159
battle los angeles uh trying the

2333
01:27:55,990 --> 01:27:52,159
transformers franchise you know these

2334
01:27:59,750 --> 01:27:56,000
are uber uber patriotic uh products uh

2335
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:59,760
jingoistic even and uh the the dialogue

2336
01:28:03,510 --> 01:28:01,920
is so awful and you might think why is

2337
01:28:05,189 --> 01:28:03,520
the dialogue so often that's because you

2338
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:05,199
know a substantial chunk of the dialogue

2339
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:06,560
has actually been written by pentagon

2340
01:28:10,149 --> 01:28:08,159
staffers

2341
01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:10,159
i mean that's no no that's that that's a

2342
01:28:14,950 --> 01:28:12,560
fact um what what they do is they they

2343
01:28:17,750 --> 01:28:14,960
reserve the right to

2344
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:17,760
see every draft of the script and they

2345
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:19,440
have their own staffers

2346
01:28:22,870 --> 01:28:21,679
go through with a pen and they highlight

2347
01:28:24,870 --> 01:28:22,880
anything that they deem to be

2348
01:28:26,790 --> 01:28:24,880
objectionable or

2349
01:28:29,030 --> 01:28:26,800
in any way might pay the military in an

2350
01:28:30,390 --> 01:28:29,040
unfavorable light and then even beyond

2351
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:30,400
that they can even

2352
01:28:33,830 --> 01:28:32,239
you know see a representation of a

2353
01:28:35,910 --> 01:28:33,840
particular issue which is of interest to

2354
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:35,920
them like national security or foreign

2355
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:38,320
policy and they can suggest alterations

2356
01:28:40,629 --> 01:28:39,679
there as well so they'll highlight the

2357
01:28:43,030 --> 01:28:40,639
problems

2358
01:28:44,470 --> 01:28:43,040
and then they will write dialogue

2359
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:44,480
for the you know for the production and

2360
01:28:48,310 --> 01:28:46,080
say we we recommend that you use this

2361
01:28:50,310 --> 01:28:48,320
instead now the filmmakers then have the

2362
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:50,320
choice of saying no we won't do that

2363
01:28:54,070 --> 01:28:51,600
because it's crap and we want to make

2364
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:54,080
our own movie in which case the pentagon

2365
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:55,440
reserves the right to say okay you don't

2366
01:28:57,990 --> 01:28:57,120
get our hardware anymore so the point is

2367
01:28:59,590 --> 01:28:58,000
is that once they enter their

2368
01:29:01,750 --> 01:28:59,600
contractual agreement with with the

2369
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:01,760
pentagon basically they're signing away

2370
01:29:06,149 --> 01:29:04,159
the their creative rights to their movie

2371
01:29:07,510 --> 01:29:06,159
and they really have to follow any

2372
01:29:08,790 --> 01:29:07,520
suggestion that the pentagon puts

2373
01:29:10,229 --> 01:29:08,800
forward at that point once they sign

2374
01:29:12,790 --> 01:29:10,239
that contract well especially if they've

2375
01:29:15,189 --> 01:29:12,800
requested help with uh right with

2376
01:29:16,470 --> 01:29:15,199
airplanes uh you know any sort of

2377
01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:16,480
vehicles that sort of thing the

2378
01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:18,400
inclusion of footage from bases that

2379
01:29:22,229 --> 01:29:20,400
sort of thing so they do kind of sit in

2380
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:22,239
the driver's seat but i'll tell you you

2381
01:29:24,790 --> 01:29:23,199
talk about

2382
01:29:26,470 --> 01:29:24,800
bad hollywood scripts

2383
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:26,480
almost every major hollywood movie that

2384
01:29:31,110 --> 01:29:28,400
comes out now with very few exceptions

2385
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:31,120
feature you know one word uh answers

2386
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:32,960
three word questions

2387
01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:34,800
uh grunts

2388
01:29:38,470 --> 01:29:36,960
you know as responses

2389
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:38,480
and it seems to be dumbed down to the

2390
01:29:42,709 --> 01:29:41,040
lowest common denominator uh in terms of

2391
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:42,719
the cultural languaging

2392
01:29:47,510 --> 01:29:45,840
it just to me it's uh it's

2393
01:29:49,270 --> 01:29:47,520
i don't know it's very

2394
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:49,280
well it's about i mean it's i mean

2395
01:29:53,110 --> 01:29:51,120
that's just yeah that's just a cultural

2396
01:29:54,870 --> 01:29:53,120
trend i think it's um it's the same you

2397
01:29:56,550 --> 01:29:54,880
know these films are all about spectacle

2398
01:29:59,350 --> 01:29:56,560
now especially in the age of special

2399
01:30:02,070 --> 01:29:59,360
effects and um uh you know dialogue is

2400
01:30:04,550 --> 01:30:02,080
secondary to to to image

2401
01:30:07,110 --> 01:30:04,560
and uh and as i said it's kind of really

2402
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:07,120
over spectacle and uh

2403
01:30:11,110 --> 01:30:09,280
i don't know i mean these i agree i mean

2404
01:30:12,790 --> 01:30:11,120
that most of what comes out of hollywood

2405
01:30:15,270 --> 01:30:12,800
in terms of so-called blockbusters is

2406
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:15,280
like to me almost unwatchable well i

2407
01:30:20,629 --> 01:30:18,880
won't get into batman v superman

2408
01:30:22,390 --> 01:30:20,639
at all but i'll give you this spoiler

2409
01:30:24,229 --> 01:30:22,400
i'm going to do it i don't care

2410
01:30:25,350 --> 01:30:24,239
they kill superman at the end of the

2411
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:25,360
movie

2412
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:30,000
we got robbie graham with gene and chris

2413
01:30:47,590 --> 01:30:43,510
thank you for listening to gcn

2414
01:30:49,430 --> 01:30:47,600
be sure to visit gcnlive.com today

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2454
01:32:25,430 --> 01:32:23,120
crippling you i've defended people from

2455
01:32:27,510 --> 01:32:25,440
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

2456
01:32:28,950 --> 01:32:27,520
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

2457
01:32:30,629 --> 01:32:28,960
the book on irs settlement and i'm

2458
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:30,639
telling you there's no such thing as a

2459
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hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

2460
01:32:38,070 --> 01:32:36,560
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

2461
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:38,080
programs there's never been a better

2462
01:32:44,790 --> 01:32:40,960
time to solve your problem call 834 no

2463
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:44,800
tax that's 800 34 no tax on my website

2464
01:32:54,629 --> 01:32:52,310
oh 10 000 or more to the irs get on

2465
01:32:57,030 --> 01:32:54,639
board with the tax admiral don't take on

2466
01:32:59,590 --> 01:32:57,040
the irs alone i'll cut penalties and

2467
01:33:02,310 --> 01:32:59,600
reduce your overall tax bill sometimes i

2468
01:33:04,310 --> 01:33:02,320
can even get it zeroed out completely

2469
01:33:06,550 --> 01:33:04,320
we're an a-rated company helping people

2470
01:33:09,030 --> 01:33:06,560
clean up their mess with the irs if you

2471
01:33:11,390 --> 01:33:09,040
owe 10 000 or more then call the tax

2472
01:33:13,189 --> 01:33:11,400
admiral call

2473
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:13,199
800-287-7180 again that's

2474
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this is a healthcare alert from the pain

2475
01:33:25,910 --> 01:33:24,159
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2476
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2477
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2478
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2479
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2480
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2481
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2482
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2483
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2484
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2485
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2486
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2487
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2488
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2489
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2490
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2491
01:34:01,669 --> 01:33:59,520
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2492
01:34:03,669 --> 01:34:01,679
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2493
01:34:05,590 --> 01:34:03,679
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2494
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2495
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2496
01:34:14,310 --> 01:34:11,199
you just call 866-389-0620

2497
01:34:19,270 --> 01:34:14,320
that's 866-389-0620

2498
01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:22,149
this is david cordani ceo of cigna

2499
01:34:25,270 --> 01:34:23,840
for more than 20 years cigna has worked

2500
01:34:27,990 --> 01:34:25,280
with the march of dimes to address

2501
01:34:29,430 --> 01:34:28,000
premature births in the u.s

2502
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,440
premature births cause horrible

2503
01:34:32,550 --> 01:34:31,440
suffering and cost billions of dollars

2504
01:34:34,229 --> 01:34:32,560
each year

2505
01:34:35,669 --> 01:34:34,239
that's why cigna is committed to raising

2506
01:34:37,830 --> 01:34:35,679
funds and awareness through our

2507
01:34:40,390 --> 01:34:37,840
employees family and friends to improve

2508
01:34:42,310 --> 01:34:40,400
the health of moms and babies

2509
01:34:44,550 --> 01:34:42,320
please join us in supporting the march

2510
01:34:46,810 --> 01:34:44,560
for babies start your team today at

2511
01:34:55,350 --> 01:34:46,820
marchforbabies.org

2512
01:34:57,430 --> 01:34:55,360
[Music]

2513
01:35:01,189 --> 01:34:57,440
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

2514
01:35:09,189 --> 01:35:01,199
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

2515
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:11,110
okay with gina and chris robbie graham

2516
01:35:15,030 --> 01:35:13,600
talking about silver screen saucers now

2517
01:35:18,550 --> 01:35:15,040
when we're talking about military

2518
01:35:22,470 --> 01:35:18,560
influence of movies particularly sci-fi

2519
01:35:24,629 --> 01:35:22,480
ufo oriented movies etc what about 1996

2520
01:35:27,030 --> 01:35:24,639
independence day because there's a lot

2521
01:35:28,870 --> 01:35:27,040
of military presence there but they also

2522
01:35:31,189 --> 01:35:28,880
visit area 51

2523
01:35:33,910 --> 01:35:31,199
where supposedly they are holding aliens

2524
01:35:35,669 --> 01:35:33,920
on ice and they have a flying saucer did

2525
01:35:38,390 --> 01:35:35,679
the military at all

2526
01:35:40,950 --> 01:35:38,400
get involved in that movie they did not

2527
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,960
well what happened was the the producer

2528
01:35:44,070 --> 01:35:42,400
dean devlin approached

2529
01:35:45,750 --> 01:35:44,080
the pentagon for their assistance on the

2530
01:35:46,629 --> 01:35:45,760
movie for obvious reasons because it you

2531
01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:46,639
know

2532
01:35:51,030 --> 01:35:48,880
reasons that filmmakers approach

2533
01:35:53,590 --> 01:35:51,040
hollywood they requested the assessments

2534
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:53,600
of the military and the military said

2535
01:35:56,149 --> 01:35:54,719
you know they read the script and they

2536
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:56,159
said well we've highlighted a number of

2537
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:57,920
problems with the script some of them

2538
01:36:00,950 --> 01:35:59,840
were unrelated to ufos some of them were

2539
01:36:03,750 --> 01:36:00,960
just general

2540
01:36:05,350 --> 01:36:03,760
uh points of accuracy or inaccuracy but

2541
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:05,360
the the sticking point they said was

2542
01:36:09,430 --> 01:36:07,199
that look we cannot assist you

2543
01:36:11,030 --> 01:36:09,440
if you don't remove all references to

2544
01:36:12,629 --> 01:36:11,040
area 51 and roswell they said those are

2545
01:36:13,910 --> 01:36:12,639
the sticking points

2546
01:36:16,070 --> 01:36:13,920
and you know the filmmaker said well we

2547
01:36:17,910 --> 01:36:16,080
can't we can't remove references to area

2548
01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:17,920
51 and roswell because they're central

2549
01:36:21,669 --> 01:36:19,199
to the narrative

2550
01:36:23,110 --> 01:36:21,679
so to their credit the the filmmakers

2551
01:36:24,470 --> 01:36:23,120
went their own way without the pentagon

2552
01:36:25,510 --> 01:36:24,480
and they made everything with special

2553
01:36:27,669 --> 01:36:25,520
effects

2554
01:36:29,669 --> 01:36:27,679
now what happened there was that the

2555
01:36:32,070 --> 01:36:29,679
pentagon missed out on a huge

2556
01:36:35,110 --> 01:36:32,080
opportunity to propagandize and to

2557
01:36:37,030 --> 01:36:35,120
recruit and they watched this film

2558
01:36:38,470 --> 01:36:37,040
become the most successful film of the

2559
01:36:39,830 --> 01:36:38,480
year and one of the most successful

2560
01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:39,840
films of the decade and now it's about

2561
01:36:43,669 --> 01:36:41,760
to spawn a sequel this summer

2562
01:36:45,189 --> 01:36:43,679
um and so

2563
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:45,199
what they i think what they realized

2564
01:36:50,390 --> 01:36:47,199
there was because they denied their

2565
01:36:51,510 --> 01:36:50,400
cooperation on ufological grounds

2566
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:51,520
they they missed out on a huge

2567
01:36:54,390 --> 01:36:53,040
opportunity to propaganda so i think

2568
01:36:57,030 --> 01:36:54,400
what happened

2569
01:36:58,709 --> 01:36:57,040
following that was they had a sit down

2570
01:37:01,350 --> 01:36:58,719
at the pentagon or at the hollywood

2571
01:37:02,790 --> 01:37:01,360
liaison office in los angeles and they

2572
01:37:05,430 --> 01:37:02,800
said look we really need to

2573
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:05,440
to rethink our position on hollywood's

2574
01:37:09,590 --> 01:37:07,280
engagement with this subject basically

2575
01:37:10,470 --> 01:37:09,600
they sat down i think in in los angeles

2576
01:37:13,830 --> 01:37:10,480
and they

2577
01:37:15,510 --> 01:37:13,840
made the decision to be more open to

2578
01:37:17,510 --> 01:37:15,520
hollywood filmmakers when it comes to

2579
01:37:18,950 --> 01:37:17,520
depictions of ufos

2580
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:18,960
and so

2581
01:37:24,310 --> 01:37:21,440
you had this flat out denial of

2582
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:24,320
cooperation in 1996 on independence day

2583
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:26,400
but then the very you know the the

2584
01:37:31,510 --> 01:37:28,320
following year um you had full

2585
01:37:33,750 --> 01:37:31,520
cooperation granted to the tv production

2586
01:37:36,229 --> 01:37:33,760
of stargate the tv show stargate which

2587
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:36,239
ran for 10 years sg-1

2588
01:37:39,510 --> 01:37:38,080
and that show rather received the full

2589
01:37:40,790 --> 01:37:39,520
cooperation of the pentagon and the u.s

2590
01:37:43,189 --> 01:37:40,800
space command

2591
01:37:44,790 --> 01:37:43,199
and so obviously there had been some

2592
01:37:46,950 --> 01:37:44,800
kind of a conversation where they said

2593
01:37:49,350 --> 01:37:46,960
we have to end our decades-long policy

2594
01:37:51,990 --> 01:37:49,360
of non-cooperation with you for with

2595
01:37:52,870 --> 01:37:52,000
ufothean productions if we want to

2596
01:37:55,350 --> 01:37:52,880
one

2597
01:37:57,669 --> 01:37:55,360
propagandize more effectively but two if

2598
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:57,679
we want to have any input at all

2599
01:38:02,070 --> 01:38:00,239
uh in hollywood on how

2600
01:38:03,590 --> 01:38:02,080
filmmakers actually depict a subject

2601
01:38:05,750 --> 01:38:03,600
which we ourselves historically have

2602
01:38:07,990 --> 01:38:05,760
been interested in and have a historical

2603
01:38:09,430 --> 01:38:08,000
engagement with then we need to actually

2604
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:09,440
insert ourselves into these productions

2605
01:38:14,070 --> 01:38:11,920
and therefore we need to be more open to

2606
01:38:15,189 --> 01:38:14,080
to you know to you know we have to just

2607
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:15,199
say look we don't care that it's about

2608
01:38:18,070 --> 01:38:16,800
ufos in fact

2609
01:38:19,669 --> 01:38:18,080
we want to be involved because it's

2610
01:38:21,350 --> 01:38:19,679
about ufos and therefore we can actually

2611
01:38:22,790 --> 01:38:21,360
manipulate popular perceptions of our

2612
01:38:24,950 --> 01:38:22,800
historical engagement with this

2613
01:38:26,149 --> 01:38:24,960
phenomenon it's not about you know as

2614
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:26,159
far as the department of defense is

2615
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:29,040
concerned i don't really see any agenda

2616
01:38:33,109 --> 01:38:31,520
to to acclimate or to to sow a

2617
01:38:35,030 --> 01:38:33,119
particular message

2618
01:38:36,790 --> 01:38:35,040
other than and this is a clear message

2619
01:38:39,270 --> 01:38:36,800
that you can identify across um

2620
01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:39,280
pentagon-backed ufo movies and ufo theme

2621
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:41,440
productions over the years very clearly

2622
01:38:45,350 --> 01:38:44,239
what you see is is these scripts which

2623
01:38:47,830 --> 01:38:45,360
have been

2624
01:38:49,350 --> 01:38:47,840
partially written by pentagon staffers

2625
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:49,360
they depict

2626
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,600
a united states military

2627
01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:53,440
which is historically

2628
01:38:59,910 --> 01:38:57,440
oblivious to ufo reality so the

2629
01:39:01,189 --> 01:38:59,920
militaries and governments in these in

2630
01:39:04,149 --> 01:39:01,199
these or especially the militaries

2631
01:39:06,149 --> 01:39:04,159
rather in these um productions

2632
01:39:09,189 --> 01:39:06,159
such as um

2633
01:39:11,510 --> 01:39:09,199
such as battle los angeles transformers

2634
01:39:13,590 --> 01:39:11,520
battleship they they don't have a

2635
01:39:15,510 --> 01:39:13,600
historical involvement in a ufo cover-up

2636
01:39:16,310 --> 01:39:15,520
so when the aliens arrive and invade

2637
01:39:17,750 --> 01:39:16,320
earth

2638
01:39:19,669 --> 01:39:17,760
the department of defense is as

2639
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:19,679
surprised as anyone they've got no

2640
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:21,360
aliens in the basement

2641
01:39:24,629 --> 01:39:22,320
um

2642
01:39:26,709 --> 01:39:24,639
and in transformers

2643
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:26,719
so basically they're kind of rewriting

2644
01:39:29,350 --> 01:39:28,080
their their official history when it

2645
01:39:31,030 --> 01:39:29,360
comes to ufos they're saying we don't

2646
01:39:33,430 --> 01:39:31,040
have an official engagement with this

2647
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:33,440
subject historically and there is no

2648
01:39:37,030 --> 01:39:34,800
cover-up so that's that's kind of the

2649
01:39:40,310 --> 01:39:37,040
subtext of these films which they back

2650
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:40,320
but in transformers in 2007

2651
01:39:44,390 --> 01:39:42,560
what you have is a very labored scene in

2652
01:39:45,669 --> 01:39:44,400
which the secretary of defense played by

2653
01:39:48,709 --> 01:39:45,679
john voight

2654
01:39:50,310 --> 01:39:48,719
discovers to his horror that a secret

2655
01:39:52,310 --> 01:39:50,320
quasi-governmental

2656
01:39:53,430 --> 01:39:52,320
agency and this is key not the actual

2657
01:39:55,270 --> 01:39:53,440
department of defense but a

2658
01:39:57,109 --> 01:39:55,280
quasi-governmental agency called sector

2659
01:39:58,070 --> 01:39:57,119
7 which is clearly inspired by majestic

2660
01:40:00,950 --> 01:39:58,080
12

2661
01:40:04,070 --> 01:40:00,960
has been secretly

2662
01:40:05,669 --> 01:40:04,080
concealing ufo and alien reality from

2663
01:40:07,669 --> 01:40:05,679
the president and from the secretary of

2664
01:40:09,030 --> 01:40:07,679
defense himself and when john voight the

2665
01:40:10,550 --> 01:40:09,040
secretary of defense in the movie learns

2666
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,560
of this he's horrified he's outraged how

2667
01:40:14,070 --> 01:40:12,239
can you keep a frozen alien in the

2668
01:40:17,109 --> 01:40:14,080
basement blah blah blah blah blah and

2669
01:40:17,990 --> 01:40:17,119
this is so blatantly you know in service

2670
01:40:20,229 --> 01:40:18,000
of the

2671
01:40:22,629 --> 01:40:20,239
current department of defense you know

2672
01:40:24,470 --> 01:40:22,639
and and it's interesting that that point

2673
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:24,480
that position is carried through in all

2674
01:40:27,590 --> 01:40:26,320
of these narratives which are backed by

2675
01:40:29,910 --> 01:40:27,600
the department of defense when it comes

2676
01:40:31,910 --> 01:40:29,920
to ufos they're not really interested in

2677
01:40:33,830 --> 01:40:31,920
in painting a particular picture of the

2678
01:40:36,229 --> 01:40:33,840
phenomenon itself other than hostile

2679
01:40:37,750 --> 01:40:36,239
obviously but they are interested in

2680
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:37,760
rewriting their own historical

2681
01:40:41,430 --> 01:40:39,679
engagement with the subject

2682
01:40:42,790 --> 01:40:41,440
so the military in these cases they're

2683
01:40:44,149 --> 01:40:42,800
the good guys

2684
01:40:46,550 --> 01:40:44,159
and when

2685
01:40:47,990 --> 01:40:46,560
policies aren't followed these are the

2686
01:40:50,390 --> 01:40:48,000
outliers

2687
01:40:52,870 --> 01:40:50,400
these are the ones going rogue

2688
01:40:55,189 --> 01:40:52,880
now with regard to the sequel called

2689
01:40:56,950 --> 01:40:55,199
independence day resurgence the sequel

2690
01:40:59,109 --> 01:40:56,960
which is coming out this year

2691
01:41:00,870 --> 01:40:59,119
is it the same thing or did the military

2692
01:41:03,189 --> 01:41:00,880
cooperate with

2693
01:41:04,629 --> 01:41:03,199
mr emmerich and dean devon

2694
01:41:07,030 --> 01:41:04,639
you've caught me out here because i

2695
01:41:08,950 --> 01:41:07,040
haven't caught up that far um it's

2696
01:41:10,870 --> 01:41:08,960
something that i need to look into

2697
01:41:12,629 --> 01:41:10,880
others may know the answer to that uh

2698
01:41:14,470 --> 01:41:12,639
it's something i will be looking at

2699
01:41:16,149 --> 01:41:14,480
quite seriously and obviously as the

2700
01:41:19,030 --> 01:41:16,159
film approaches doing some articles on

2701
01:41:20,550 --> 01:41:19,040
it i i suspect that they may well have

2702
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:20,560
approached and they'll be stupid not to

2703
01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:22,159
do but at the same time they may well

2704
01:41:24,950 --> 01:41:23,600
have learned from the past mistakes and

2705
01:41:26,470 --> 01:41:24,960
and would rather not go through that

2706
01:41:28,070 --> 01:41:26,480
again um you know because you know

2707
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:28,080
military involvement in these films is

2708
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,840
not essential these films get made

2709
01:41:33,750 --> 01:41:31,600
without without the military and they

2710
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:33,760
and and often filmmakers prefer not to

2711
01:41:36,950 --> 01:41:35,040
have to engage with the military on

2712
01:41:39,270 --> 01:41:36,960
these things because they do have to

2713
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:39,280
give up some creative control so dean

2714
01:41:41,750 --> 01:41:40,800
devlin and roland emerick now you know

2715
01:41:43,750 --> 01:41:41,760
they're at a different point in their

2716
01:41:45,590 --> 01:41:43,760
careers um this film is going to get

2717
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:45,600
made without the military you know

2718
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:46,960
because

2719
01:41:50,310 --> 01:41:48,960
it's it's become a cultural phenomenon

2720
01:41:52,390 --> 01:41:50,320
so i doubt there's going to be much

2721
01:41:53,910 --> 01:41:52,400
military involvement but i could be

2722
01:41:54,870 --> 01:41:53,920
wrong don't quote me on that i could be

2723
01:41:56,709 --> 01:41:54,880
wrong

2724
01:41:59,669 --> 01:41:56,719
just for everyone's reference the movie

2725
01:42:00,790 --> 01:41:59,679
will be released june 24th

2726
01:42:01,750 --> 01:42:00,800
this year

2727
01:42:03,270 --> 01:42:01,760
okay

2728
01:42:04,550 --> 01:42:03,280
so let's see what happens and a lot of

2729
01:42:06,709 --> 01:42:04,560
the originals

2730
01:42:08,470 --> 01:42:06,719
actors are there except for will smith

2731
01:42:09,750 --> 01:42:08,480
yeah but someone is in there who plays

2732
01:42:11,830 --> 01:42:09,760
the son

2733
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:11,840
of the will smith character from the

2734
01:42:15,189 --> 01:42:13,679
previous movie he's not in there because

2735
01:42:16,709 --> 01:42:15,199
he doesn't he says he doesn't like to do

2736
01:42:20,070 --> 01:42:16,719
ensemble pieces

2737
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:20,080
now he's uh he's too big

2738
01:42:23,990 --> 01:42:22,159
then we have jeff goldblum

2739
01:42:26,310 --> 01:42:24,000
in this movie

2740
01:42:28,070 --> 01:42:26,320
we have judd hirsch again brent spiner

2741
01:42:30,149 --> 01:42:28,080
who is he was killed off in the last

2742
01:42:32,310 --> 01:42:30,159
movie i can't figure out how they got

2743
01:42:35,109 --> 01:42:32,320
him back and they also have liam

2744
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:35,119
hemsworth who is the brother of thor for

2745
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:37,920
his chris hemsworth his younger brother

2746
01:42:42,790 --> 01:42:40,000
appears in this film so we'll see i saw

2747
01:42:44,709 --> 01:42:42,800
the coming attractions it seems okay

2748
01:42:46,229 --> 01:42:44,719
i had fun with the original film

2749
01:42:47,910 --> 01:42:46,239
i'm sure it'll be very entertaining i

2750
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:47,920
mean as again you know if you can kind

2751
01:42:51,430 --> 01:42:49,520
of forgive the

2752
01:42:54,629 --> 01:42:51,440
the almost

2753
01:42:56,310 --> 01:42:54,639
ridiculously comical um patriotism of

2754
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:56,320
the first movie and the jingoistic

2755
01:42:59,510 --> 01:42:58,239
nature of it it's it is hugely

2756
01:43:01,590 --> 01:42:59,520
entertaining rolling memory makes

2757
01:43:03,270 --> 01:43:01,600
entertaining films very cheesy old

2758
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:03,280
school kind of films but entertaining

2759
01:43:06,470 --> 01:43:05,119
films and i'm sure it will be an

2760
01:43:08,149 --> 01:43:06,480
entertaining movie it'll be interesting

2761
01:43:11,430 --> 01:43:08,159
to see the extent to which they engage

2762
01:43:13,830 --> 01:43:11,440
with the further ufological mythology um

2763
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:13,840
which has evolved since um since the

2764
01:43:18,149 --> 01:43:15,600
last movie as as chris carter did with

2765
01:43:19,669 --> 01:43:18,159
the x-files so so and you know that's

2766
01:43:21,030 --> 01:43:19,679
that's the trend that we're seeing now

2767
01:43:23,510 --> 01:43:21,040
is is as a

2768
01:43:26,310 --> 01:43:23,520
as more and more filmmakers are engaging

2769
01:43:28,870 --> 01:43:26,320
with with uh with an existing and and

2770
01:43:31,109 --> 01:43:28,880
richer ufological subculture and they're

2771
01:43:33,270 --> 01:43:31,119
consciously drawing from it and

2772
01:43:35,590 --> 01:43:33,280
being very parasitic towards it and that

2773
01:43:37,830 --> 01:43:35,600
the you know so so what

2774
01:43:40,470 --> 01:43:37,840
what fact there is underlying this

2775
01:43:41,830 --> 01:43:40,480
phenomenon in in in early reports has

2776
01:43:42,709 --> 01:43:41,840
just become so

2777
01:43:46,229 --> 01:43:42,719
um

2778
01:43:48,070 --> 01:43:46,239
uh it's been so uh kind of mashed up

2779
01:43:50,550 --> 01:43:48,080
through through this medium that it's

2780
01:43:51,990 --> 01:43:50,560
very hard to identify um you know the

2781
01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:52,000
fact from the fantasy now and that's and

2782
01:43:55,990 --> 01:43:53,760
that's really the focus of what i do and

2783
01:43:57,990 --> 01:43:56,000
it's it's trying to kind of uh pull

2784
01:44:00,629 --> 01:43:58,000
apart these threads where possible and

2785
01:44:02,149 --> 01:44:00,639
um it's often not possible but it's it's

2786
01:44:03,830 --> 01:44:02,159
i think it's important to try and i

2787
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:03,840
think it's important to engage as i say

2788
01:44:08,310 --> 01:44:06,239
more generally with with with ufo theme

2789
01:44:10,870 --> 01:44:08,320
productions as not something that's

2790
01:44:13,030 --> 01:44:10,880
peripheral to ufology you know a lot of

2791
01:44:14,790 --> 01:44:13,040
people interested in ufos are interested

2792
01:44:16,390 --> 01:44:14,800
in in ufo movies but they're not in a

2793
01:44:17,990 --> 01:44:16,400
direct way they see them as fluff they

2794
01:44:21,350 --> 01:44:18,000
see them as peripheral to the ufo

2795
01:44:23,430 --> 01:44:21,360
subject and having no real bearing on on

2796
01:44:25,750 --> 01:44:23,440
youth logical occurrences of belief or

2797
01:44:28,229 --> 01:44:25,760
debate and that's very far from the

2798
01:44:30,629 --> 01:44:28,239
truth you know these films have had a

2799
01:44:32,070 --> 01:44:30,639
huge cultural impact and they've they've

2800
01:44:34,390 --> 01:44:32,080
influenced us on a subconscious

2801
01:44:37,750 --> 01:44:34,400
subconscious level for decades and i

2802
01:44:40,310 --> 01:44:37,760
think that ufo movies and tv shows ufo

2803
01:44:42,629 --> 01:44:40,320
entertainment is is central to our

2804
01:44:45,109 --> 01:44:42,639
misunderstanding of this phenomenon

2805
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:45,119
we'll continue talking about ufo movies

2806
01:44:51,590 --> 01:44:48,000
of course in our next segment one

2807
01:44:53,830 --> 01:44:51,600
question being how have we misunderstood

2808
01:44:55,669 --> 01:44:53,840
the ufo mystery because of all those

2809
01:44:57,830 --> 01:44:55,679
films we'll get into that in a few

2810
01:44:59,910 --> 01:44:57,840
moments robbie graham is writing about

2811
01:45:01,750 --> 01:44:59,920
silver screen saucers and we want to

2812
01:45:03,350 --> 01:45:01,760
tell you about after the powercast our

2813
01:45:06,310 --> 01:45:03,360
second radio show

2814
01:45:09,590 --> 01:45:06,320
and to get the show you have to join the

2815
01:45:10,390 --> 01:45:09,600
powercastplus at plus.thepowercast.com

2816
01:45:14,709 --> 01:45:10,400
p

2817
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:14,719
the features

2818
01:45:19,350 --> 01:45:16,960
sign up it's cheap you know like mad

2819
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magazine our price cheap this is cheap

2820
01:45:28,470 --> 01:45:20,960
with gene and chris you're in the

2821
01:45:28,480 --> 01:45:33,109
thank you for listening to gcn

2822
01:45:37,590 --> 01:45:34,030
visit

2823
01:45:41,430 --> 01:45:39,350
first game attack of the rockoids and it

2824
01:45:42,709 --> 01:45:41,440
was a critically acclaimed success and

2825
01:45:44,629 --> 01:45:42,719
now there is the coming of the

2826
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:44,639
protectors a former military

2827
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:46,880
intelligence man is contacted by a space

2828
01:45:51,590 --> 01:45:49,040
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

2829
01:45:53,270 --> 01:45:51,600
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

2830
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her distant planet are planning to

2831
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:55,440
conquer the earth this is gripping

2832
01:45:59,830 --> 01:45:58,000
science fiction of the classic kind

2833
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attack of the rockoids and the coming of

2834
01:46:04,750 --> 01:46:01,880
the protectors find out more at

2835
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rockoids.com that's rockoids

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2850
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2854
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2855
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2861
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2864
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2865
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2867
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2872
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2873
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2874
01:47:53,270 --> 01:47:49,590
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2875
01:47:54,550 --> 01:47:53,280
standard of paranormal radio

2876
01:48:01,990 --> 01:47:54,560
and now

2877
01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:05,350
okay so robbie graham how has our

2878
01:48:09,750 --> 01:48:06,719
perception

2879
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:09,760
of ufos perhaps been distorted

2880
01:48:13,750 --> 01:48:10,560
by

2881
01:48:15,350 --> 01:48:13,760
the culture generated from ufo themed

2882
01:48:17,350 --> 01:48:15,360
movies

2883
01:48:19,510 --> 01:48:17,360
well it's difficult to say i mean i i

2884
01:48:21,830 --> 01:48:19,520
think well i mean when it comes to

2885
01:48:23,430 --> 01:48:21,840
to entertainment media and ufos i think

2886
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:23,440
you have to look at cinema as having a

2887
01:48:27,910 --> 01:48:25,840
particularly unique power it does have

2888
01:48:29,910 --> 01:48:27,920
this ability to detach us from our

2889
01:48:31,750 --> 01:48:29,920
physical environment and transport us to

2890
01:48:33,669 --> 01:48:31,760
this other more vivid realm of

2891
01:48:37,750 --> 01:48:33,679
perception where everything is

2892
01:48:39,350 --> 01:48:37,760
is unreal yet real illusory yet real so

2893
01:48:41,109 --> 01:48:39,360
in film studies anything that exists

2894
01:48:43,189 --> 01:48:41,119
within the world of the film is is known

2895
01:48:44,709 --> 01:48:43,199
as digesis so the cinema screen is

2896
01:48:47,510 --> 01:48:44,719
supposed to separate the world of the

2897
01:48:50,070 --> 01:48:47,520
characters from our so-called real world

2898
01:48:51,590 --> 01:48:50,080
but actually this digestive so the world

2899
01:48:53,430 --> 01:48:51,600
seeps through the screen and into our

2900
01:48:54,870 --> 01:48:53,440
world and into our subconscious and it

2901
01:48:57,510 --> 01:48:54,880
does become part of our reality and it

2902
01:48:59,430 --> 01:48:57,520
does inform our beliefs and our view of

2903
01:49:00,390 --> 01:48:59,440
the world to an extent subconsciously

2904
01:49:01,430 --> 01:49:00,400
and cumulatively

2905
01:49:03,270 --> 01:49:01,440
over time

2906
01:49:05,590 --> 01:49:03,280
and i think that key to movies power as

2907
01:49:08,229 --> 01:49:05,600
i said earlier is that movies do

2908
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,239
have this slick neatly packaged way of

2909
01:49:12,310 --> 01:49:10,400
narrativizing of making sense of the

2910
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:12,320
world around us they can textualize the

2911
01:49:15,189 --> 01:49:14,000
events and the debates and the processes

2912
01:49:17,189 --> 01:49:15,199
of our world

2913
01:49:18,790 --> 01:49:17,199
and no matter what the subject and

2914
01:49:20,070 --> 01:49:18,800
regardless of how much that subject has

2915
01:49:21,830 --> 01:49:20,080
already been written about and debated

2916
01:49:23,830 --> 01:49:21,840
once hollywood has got its hands on it

2917
01:49:25,830 --> 01:49:23,840
once it's been hollywoodized

2918
01:49:27,510 --> 01:49:25,840
it is embedded into the popular

2919
01:49:30,709 --> 01:49:27,520
consciousness and it's it's it's

2920
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:30,719
imprinted on our psyche so symbiosis sir

2921
01:49:34,229 --> 01:49:33,280
it's art imitating life imitating art it

2922
01:49:35,990 --> 01:49:34,239
is and

2923
01:49:37,350 --> 01:49:36,000
it that's very much how it's become what

2924
01:49:39,590 --> 01:49:37,360
you can say

2925
01:49:40,870 --> 01:49:39,600
you know very clearly is that

2926
01:49:43,750 --> 01:49:40,880
people have been seeing unidentified

2927
01:49:45,830 --> 01:49:43,760
flying in objects in one form or form or

2928
01:49:48,070 --> 01:49:45,840
another in the skies for millennia

2929
01:49:50,629 --> 01:49:48,080
but the modern ufo phenomenon as we

2930
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:50,639
understand it today began in 1947 or at

2931
01:49:53,669 --> 01:49:52,239
least in the early 1940s with the

2932
01:49:56,470 --> 01:49:53,679
through fighter phenomenon and then kind

2933
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:56,480
of manifested in the more clearly in the

2934
01:49:59,990 --> 01:49:57,920
form of flying discs although flying

2935
01:50:01,990 --> 01:50:00,000
discs are also reported in the early 40s

2936
01:50:04,470 --> 01:50:02,000
anyway in the late 1940s

2937
01:50:05,990 --> 01:50:04,480
we had flying sources um it was only a

2938
01:50:07,669 --> 01:50:06,000
very short time after that that

2939
01:50:09,270 --> 01:50:07,679
hollywood began to engage with this

2940
01:50:10,550 --> 01:50:09,280
cultural hysteria and it wasn't just a

2941
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:10,560
cultural hysteria as well it was a

2942
01:50:13,590 --> 01:50:12,800
political hysteria as we as we now know

2943
01:50:15,270 --> 01:50:13,600
you know

2944
01:50:17,350 --> 01:50:15,280
the american government and numerous

2945
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:17,360
governments were very concerned about

2946
01:50:20,229 --> 01:50:18,719
these reports

2947
01:50:23,109 --> 01:50:20,239
so it was something that was sprung from

2948
01:50:25,430 --> 01:50:23,119
my lived historical reality hollywood

2949
01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:25,440
this fantastical medium then began to

2950
01:50:29,590 --> 01:50:26,880
engage with this

2951
01:50:32,229 --> 01:50:29,600
and they drew from existing beliefs

2952
01:50:34,149 --> 01:50:32,239
debates ideas terminology

2953
01:50:35,910 --> 01:50:34,159
and they incorporated these things into

2954
01:50:38,709 --> 01:50:35,920
their fictional narratives

2955
01:50:40,070 --> 01:50:38,719
in the process they fictionalized them

2956
01:50:42,149 --> 01:50:40,080
and then you start to have life

2957
01:50:43,990 --> 01:50:42,159
informing art informing life and filming

2958
01:50:45,830 --> 01:50:44,000
art and it becomes this this this

2959
01:50:47,830 --> 01:50:45,840
ongoing process where it's hard to kind

2960
01:50:49,590 --> 01:50:47,840
of pin down what influenced what and

2961
01:50:51,350 --> 01:50:49,600
when could you remind me of the question

2962
01:50:52,629 --> 01:50:51,360
you asked me

2963
01:50:54,470 --> 01:50:52,639
what was the question well it's art

2964
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:54,480
imitating life or life imitating art

2965
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:57,119
there is like a self-perpetuating

2966
01:50:59,990 --> 01:50:59,040
symbiosis going on

2967
01:51:02,470 --> 01:51:00,000
one

2968
01:51:04,629 --> 01:51:02,480
reality seems to be building upon

2969
01:51:06,629 --> 01:51:04,639
the cultural programming and the

2970
01:51:09,189 --> 01:51:06,639
cultural programming in turn

2971
01:51:11,189 --> 01:51:09,199
seems to be driving uh you know the the

2972
01:51:13,669 --> 01:51:11,199
subjects uh i think your example of the

2973
01:51:14,470 --> 01:51:13,679
reboot of of the x-files and of course

2974
01:51:20,550 --> 01:51:14,480
the

2975
01:51:22,950 --> 01:51:20,560
pointed out

2976
01:51:25,109 --> 01:51:22,960
the level of understanding and awareness

2977
01:51:26,550 --> 01:51:25,119
in the average viewer people seem to be

2978
01:51:28,870 --> 01:51:26,560
more informed now even though they're

2979
01:51:29,910 --> 01:51:28,880
ill-informed in my in my view they're

2980
01:51:32,709 --> 01:51:29,920
right sure

2981
01:51:35,030 --> 01:51:32,719
so so yeah so what we can say about

2982
01:51:36,229 --> 01:51:35,040
hollywood is that it simplifies there is

2983
01:51:37,750 --> 01:51:36,239
a phenomenon okay whether it's a

2984
01:51:39,669 --> 01:51:37,760
cultural phenomenon or an ontological

2985
01:51:41,589 --> 01:51:39,679
phenomenon i i think i think it's a bit

2986
01:51:43,669 --> 01:51:41,599
of both i think people

2987
01:51:45,750 --> 01:51:43,679
certainly in my experience who who who

2988
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:45,760
i've spoken with uh you know over the

2989
01:51:49,910 --> 01:51:47,679
years have had utterly profound

2990
01:51:51,430 --> 01:51:49,920
experiences and on some level this

2991
01:51:54,229 --> 01:51:51,440
phenomenon seems to be

2992
01:51:56,790 --> 01:51:54,239
objectively kind of measurable although

2993
01:51:58,310 --> 01:51:56,800
albeit very fleetingly and in a kind of

2994
01:52:00,229 --> 01:51:58,320
a way that mocks us

2995
01:52:01,589 --> 01:52:00,239
but but there is something underlying

2996
01:52:02,709 --> 01:52:01,599
this which i think is genuinely

2997
01:52:05,669 --> 01:52:02,719
anomalous

2998
01:52:07,350 --> 01:52:05,679
now what hollywood does is it simplifies

2999
01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:07,360
this anomalous phenomenon through its

3000
01:52:12,790 --> 01:52:09,280
narratives and through its iconographic

3001
01:52:15,830 --> 01:52:12,800
imagery into something that's digestible

3002
01:52:18,550 --> 01:52:15,840
and processable for for everyone really

3003
01:52:20,390 --> 01:52:18,560
um and it it filters this this bizarre

3004
01:52:22,870 --> 01:52:20,400
complex multifaceted phenomenon through

3005
01:52:24,870 --> 01:52:22,880
the filter of the science fiction genre

3006
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:24,880
and through the specifically the

3007
01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:27,119
extraterrestrial hypothesis rightly or

3008
01:52:29,669 --> 01:52:28,400
wrongly

3009
01:52:32,149 --> 01:52:29,679
and so this then brings us to the

3010
01:52:34,629 --> 01:52:32,159
question of ufo origins and nature what

3011
01:52:36,149 --> 01:52:34,639
what underlies the phenomenon what is it

3012
01:52:38,470 --> 01:52:36,159
this is something that i have the luxury

3013
01:52:41,350 --> 01:52:38,480
of not engaging with literally because

3014
01:52:44,149 --> 01:52:41,360
my job as i see it is to be kind of a a

3015
01:52:46,950 --> 01:52:44,159
cultural commentator um is i look at

3016
01:52:48,629 --> 01:52:46,960
hollywood's engagement with a phenomenon

3017
01:52:50,390 --> 01:52:48,639
and try to assess the extent to which

3018
01:52:52,790 --> 01:52:50,400
hollywood's engagement has affected our

3019
01:52:54,470 --> 01:52:52,800
perceptions of this phenomenon i don't

3020
01:52:56,310 --> 01:52:54,480
attempt to draw conclusions about the

3021
01:52:57,750 --> 01:52:56,320
nature of the phenomenon itself and i

3022
01:52:59,910 --> 01:52:57,760
think that anyone who attempts to draw

3023
01:53:03,430 --> 01:52:59,920
solid conclusions or at least reaches a

3024
01:53:04,870 --> 01:53:03,440
conclusion is deluded because

3025
01:53:07,109 --> 01:53:04,880
it defies

3026
01:53:09,270 --> 01:53:07,119
our understanding we are nowhere close

3027
01:53:11,109 --> 01:53:09,280
to it now that's not to say the

3028
01:53:13,350 --> 01:53:11,119
extraterrestrial intelligences are not

3029
01:53:15,189 --> 01:53:13,360
involved they may very well be you know

3030
01:53:17,270 --> 01:53:15,199
we know the i mean on the face of it the

3031
01:53:18,870 --> 01:53:17,280
extraterrestrial hypothesis has

3032
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:18,880
considerable merit

3033
01:53:22,070 --> 01:53:20,320
you know i underst you know a lot of

3034
01:53:23,830 --> 01:53:22,080
people have raised serious objections to

3035
01:53:25,109 --> 01:53:23,840
it and for understandable reasons but at

3036
01:53:27,109 --> 01:53:25,119
the same time

3037
01:53:29,669 --> 01:53:27,119
mainstream science tells us that we live

3038
01:53:31,589 --> 01:53:29,679
in a universe that's bursting with with

3039
01:53:34,470 --> 01:53:31,599
other planetary bodies

3040
01:53:36,229 --> 01:53:34,480
inhabitable star systems

3041
01:53:37,910 --> 01:53:36,239
and if the laws of evolution are

3042
01:53:40,390 --> 01:53:37,920
universal then it's utterly

3043
01:53:43,270 --> 01:53:40,400
inconceivable that life will not have

3044
01:53:44,790 --> 01:53:43,280
evolved on other planets in the universe

3045
01:53:48,709 --> 01:53:44,800
and given the age of the universe the

3046
01:53:50,149 --> 01:53:48,719
13.7 billion years it's also extremely

3047
01:53:52,470 --> 01:53:50,159
hard to believe that that life will not

3048
01:53:54,629 --> 01:53:52,480
have evolved into you know intelligent

3049
01:53:55,990 --> 01:53:54,639
beings who who could far surpass us

3050
01:53:58,870 --> 01:53:56,000
technologically

3051
01:54:01,109 --> 01:53:58,880
so given those facts and given again

3052
01:54:03,669 --> 01:54:01,119
theoretical sciences um

3053
01:54:05,350 --> 01:54:03,679
ideas about hyperspatial travel and

3054
01:54:07,510 --> 01:54:05,360
interdimensionality

3055
01:54:10,550 --> 01:54:07,520
certainly in theory and i stress in

3056
01:54:11,990 --> 01:54:10,560
theory it's possible that other you know

3057
01:54:14,310 --> 01:54:12,000
beings from elsewhere in the universe

3058
01:54:15,830 --> 01:54:14,320
have visited us and may be actively

3059
01:54:17,830 --> 01:54:15,840
visiting us the extraterrestrial

3060
01:54:20,629 --> 01:54:17,840
hypothesis is not absurd

3061
01:54:21,510 --> 01:54:20,639
when applied to to ufos but at the same

3062
01:54:23,350 --> 01:54:21,520
time

3063
01:54:25,030 --> 01:54:23,360
given what people report at a grassroots

3064
01:54:27,669 --> 01:54:25,040
level about ufos

3065
01:54:30,070 --> 01:54:27,679
it would seem that the ufo phenomena is

3066
01:54:31,430 --> 01:54:30,080
far weirder than just extraterrestrial

3067
01:54:33,189 --> 01:54:31,440
visitation

3068
01:54:36,470 --> 01:54:33,199
i think we can agree that it is far

3069
01:54:37,990 --> 01:54:36,480
weirder and and may go far beyond that

3070
01:54:39,990 --> 01:54:38,000
um

3071
01:54:41,750 --> 01:54:40,000
and it challenges us on levels that we

3072
01:54:43,990 --> 01:54:41,760
you know just are really terrifying to

3073
01:54:45,990 --> 01:54:44,000
think about and so

3074
01:54:47,990 --> 01:54:46,000
so i i don't draw conclusions i say the

3075
01:54:49,750 --> 01:54:48,000
extra the eth should we say

3076
01:54:51,510 --> 01:54:49,760
extraterrestrial hypothesis

3077
01:54:52,950 --> 01:54:51,520
is appealing on certain levels but

3078
01:54:55,270 --> 01:54:52,960
problematic

3079
01:54:56,790 --> 01:54:55,280
as well and uh

3080
01:54:59,270 --> 01:54:56,800
i don't rule anything out when it comes

3081
01:55:02,149 --> 01:54:59,280
to ufos i don't draw conclusions i know

3082
01:55:04,629 --> 01:55:02,159
that it's utterly stumped me and and i i

3083
01:55:07,030 --> 01:55:04,639
don't expect to have any answers to it

3084
01:55:08,629 --> 01:55:07,040
uh anytime soon and again this brings us

3085
01:55:10,550 --> 01:55:08,639
back to this idea of disclosure where

3086
01:55:12,390 --> 01:55:10,560
the people keep you know the the the

3087
01:55:15,430 --> 01:55:12,400
disclosure movement is a

3088
01:55:16,790 --> 01:55:15,440
is a a religion within a religion

3089
01:55:19,750 --> 01:55:16,800
and you think

3090
01:55:22,149 --> 01:55:19,760
and it's and it's

3091
01:55:23,589 --> 01:55:22,159
it's uh you know it's built on it's

3092
01:55:27,109 --> 01:55:23,599
built on

3093
01:55:29,030 --> 01:55:27,119
you know the idea of of um saviordom and

3094
01:55:33,189 --> 01:55:29,040
and it has all the key ingredients of

3095
01:55:35,510 --> 01:55:33,199
any of any kind of popular religion and

3096
01:55:37,430 --> 01:55:35,520
you know it's it's it's it's it's you i

3097
01:55:38,790 --> 01:55:37,440
get the appeal of it i've been there and

3098
01:55:40,629 --> 01:55:38,800
i think a lot of people who have been in

3099
01:55:42,550 --> 01:55:40,639
this field long enough kind of can see

3100
01:55:43,990 --> 01:55:42,560
the appeal of it but

3101
01:55:48,629 --> 01:55:44,000
well especially when you're formulating

3102
01:55:52,870 --> 01:55:50,229
and um

3103
01:55:55,589 --> 01:55:52,880
and but you know it's it's it's very

3104
01:55:57,910 --> 01:55:55,599
like you know i just don't see

3105
01:56:00,870 --> 01:55:57,920
you know what what's to disclose how do

3106
01:56:04,149 --> 01:56:00,880
you you know what's to disclose and this

3107
01:56:06,709 --> 01:56:04,159
takes me back again to to um

3108
01:56:08,550 --> 01:56:06,719
uh to one of your comments about

3109
01:56:09,750 --> 01:56:08,560
close encounters of the third kind where

3110
01:56:11,510 --> 01:56:09,760
you you know you mentioned that it was

3111
01:56:13,750 --> 01:56:11,520
interesting that the

3112
01:56:15,910 --> 01:56:13,760
uh the intelligences in the film they

3113
01:56:18,550 --> 01:56:15,920
make contact at a grassroots level they

3114
01:56:20,070 --> 01:56:18,560
they contact these implantees and this

3115
01:56:21,990 --> 01:56:20,080
is actually a really this is really

3116
01:56:22,870 --> 01:56:22,000
annoying to official them in the movie

3117
01:56:24,229 --> 01:56:22,880
because

3118
01:56:25,669 --> 01:56:24,239
they don't want them there you know so

3119
01:56:27,669 --> 01:56:25,679
these guys have all been drawn

3120
01:56:30,070 --> 01:56:27,679
individually to this site of contact at

3121
01:56:31,830 --> 01:56:30,080
devil's tower and this is unbeknownst to

3122
01:56:34,149 --> 01:56:31,840
the military who want their own private

3123
01:56:37,430 --> 01:56:34,159
communion with these beings and they

3124
01:56:38,390 --> 01:56:37,440
were invited right but they were invited

3125
01:56:39,189 --> 01:56:38,400
right so

3126
01:56:41,030 --> 01:56:39,199
so

3127
01:56:42,070 --> 01:56:41,040
this this uh

3128
01:56:44,629 --> 01:56:42,080
you know

3129
01:56:46,709 --> 01:56:44,639
i just don't the phenomenon itself

3130
01:56:48,390 --> 01:56:46,719
whatever it is doesn't seem to have

3131
01:56:52,070 --> 01:56:48,400
much interest in

3132
01:56:54,470 --> 01:56:52,080
in you know making mass contact it seems

3133
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:54,480
to flit in and out of people's lives

3134
01:57:01,910 --> 01:56:58,320
individual levels confuses people

3135
01:57:03,350 --> 01:57:01,920
wows people terrifies people and kind of

3136
01:57:04,629 --> 01:57:03,360
pushes people to explore different

3137
01:57:06,629 --> 01:57:04,639
avenues

3138
01:57:08,709 --> 01:57:06,639
but it doesn't seem to have any interest

3139
01:57:10,950 --> 01:57:08,719
in in making mass contact in the style

3140
01:57:14,390 --> 01:57:10,960
of a typical hollywood movie

3141
01:57:15,669 --> 01:57:14,400
so i you know obviously

3142
01:57:18,149 --> 01:57:15,679
the america

3143
01:57:20,390 --> 01:57:18,159
simplification but let's say the

3144
01:57:22,870 --> 01:57:20,400
american government has studied this

3145
01:57:24,390 --> 01:57:22,880
phenomenon over the years to some level

3146
01:57:26,629 --> 01:57:24,400
we've got to do a break here with robbie

3147
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:26,639
graham and jean and chris you're in the

3148
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barricade

3149
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aliens archaeological mysteries ghost

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paranormal topic as we are be sure to

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3248
02:01:48,870 --> 02:01:45,280
comment or question about the paracast

3249
02:01:52,070 --> 02:01:48,880
send it to news at theparacast.com

3250
02:01:53,910 --> 02:01:52,080
that's news at the paracast.com

3251
02:01:56,390 --> 02:01:53,920
and don't forget to visit our famous

3252
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paracast community forums at

3253
02:02:04,550 --> 02:02:02,149
i don't know what chris said there when

3254
02:02:06,229 --> 02:02:04,560
he said the power cast but that's okay

3255
02:02:07,030 --> 02:02:06,239
we have robbie graham joining us this

3256
02:02:08,470 --> 02:02:07,040
week

3257
02:02:09,910 --> 02:02:08,480
so robbie would you continue your

3258
02:02:12,070 --> 02:02:09,920
remarks

3259
02:02:13,430 --> 02:02:12,080
um so so let's say the american

3260
02:02:15,510 --> 02:02:13,440
government has

3261
02:02:17,350 --> 02:02:15,520
studied the phenomenon historically and

3262
02:02:19,510 --> 02:02:17,360
and we know that's the case um but we

3263
02:02:21,350 --> 02:02:19,520
don't know how deeply a lot of that is

3264
02:02:23,189 --> 02:02:21,360
speculation but we know that lister did

3265
02:02:25,109 --> 02:02:23,199
it you know to some extent

3266
02:02:27,350 --> 02:02:25,119
but what conclusions is to be drawn a

3267
02:02:29,750 --> 02:02:27,360
lot of what the ufo community thinks it

3268
02:02:31,669 --> 02:02:29,760
knows about the american government's

3269
02:02:33,830 --> 02:02:31,679
relationship to this phenomenon has been

3270
02:02:35,589 --> 02:02:33,840
the result demonstrably of

3271
02:02:37,750 --> 02:02:35,599
disinformation efforts tracing back to

3272
02:02:40,229 --> 02:02:37,760
the early 1980s the late 1970s early

3273
02:02:42,629 --> 02:02:40,239
1980s disinformation efforts on the part

3274
02:02:46,229 --> 02:02:42,639
of air force intelligence and the cia to

3275
02:02:47,750 --> 02:02:46,239
sew a particular idea into a subculture

3276
02:02:50,550 --> 02:02:47,760
which would then eventually bleed into

3277
02:02:53,350 --> 02:02:50,560
pop culture and it creates uh an image

3278
02:02:55,750 --> 02:02:53,360
of a american power structure

3279
02:02:57,510 --> 02:02:55,760
which is deeply um

3280
02:02:59,030 --> 02:02:57,520
engaged with with this subject you know

3281
02:03:00,950 --> 02:02:59,040
so so

3282
02:03:03,830 --> 02:03:00,960
it puts across an image of an american

3283
02:03:06,149 --> 02:03:03,840
military for example who have treaties

3284
02:03:07,189 --> 02:03:06,159
with super advanced extraterrestrial

3285
02:03:08,950 --> 02:03:07,199
entities

3286
02:03:11,510 --> 02:03:08,960
and it gives the impression that they

3287
02:03:12,950 --> 02:03:11,520
are working hand in hand in secret bases

3288
02:03:14,709 --> 02:03:12,960
and the aliens are sharing the

3289
02:03:16,870 --> 02:03:14,719
technology with the us military

3290
02:03:18,470 --> 02:03:16,880
exclusively that the american military

3291
02:03:21,510 --> 02:03:18,480
have successfully reverse engineered

3292
02:03:23,510 --> 02:03:21,520
this technology and are applying it

3293
02:03:26,310 --> 02:03:23,520
this gives the impression

3294
02:03:27,990 --> 02:03:26,320
on a sort of a drip drips

3295
02:03:29,030 --> 02:03:28,000
kind of a non-direct way to foreign

3296
02:03:30,390 --> 02:03:29,040
powers

3297
02:03:31,830 --> 02:03:30,400
that the american military is not to be

3298
02:03:33,510 --> 02:03:31,840
messed with because as we know foreign

3299
02:03:34,870 --> 02:03:33,520
powers have also historically looked

3300
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:34,880
into this phenomenon and have treated it

3301
02:03:38,390 --> 02:03:36,960
seriously especially the russian

3302
02:03:41,109 --> 02:03:38,400
what i'm hearing here is you're saying

3303
02:03:42,870 --> 02:03:41,119
that uh it sounds like disinformation of

3304
02:03:44,950 --> 02:03:42,880
the kind you're describing

3305
02:03:46,510 --> 02:03:44,960
has been latched on to by people that

3306
02:03:48,790 --> 02:03:46,520
have this

3307
02:03:50,550 --> 02:03:48,800
semi-religious fervor

3308
02:03:51,990 --> 02:03:50,560
for the government to come clean and

3309
02:03:54,070 --> 02:03:52,000
it's almost like the government's

3310
02:03:55,910 --> 02:03:54,080
created a monster so in other words the

3311
02:03:58,310 --> 02:03:55,920
disclosure movement is reacting to the

3312
02:04:00,790 --> 02:03:58,320
disinformation and has created this kind

3313
02:04:03,189 --> 02:04:00,800
of weird sort of riptide effect that the

3314
02:04:04,870 --> 02:04:03,199
government's having to do

3315
02:04:06,709 --> 02:04:04,880
that's it you've got it you've got it i

3316
02:04:09,189 --> 02:04:06,719
think that's that's very much it's blow

3317
02:04:11,430 --> 02:04:09,199
back to use the cia term oh here's a

3318
02:04:13,669 --> 02:04:11,440
question from william strathman and he's

3319
02:04:15,350 --> 02:04:13,679
wondering outside the us and hollywood

3320
02:04:17,510 --> 02:04:15,360
have other governments influence their

3321
02:04:19,270 --> 02:04:17,520
own film industry in regards to ufos or

3322
02:04:22,149 --> 02:04:19,280
the paranormal and he gives a rough

3323
02:04:24,229 --> 02:04:22,159
example to clarify perhaps mi5 and

3324
02:04:26,310 --> 02:04:24,239
quarter mass in the pit or i would add

3325
02:04:28,870 --> 02:04:26,320
uh the original movie solaris and the

3326
02:04:31,030 --> 02:04:28,880
kgb it's a really great question and one

3327
02:04:33,830 --> 02:04:31,040
that i wish i could answer um

3328
02:04:36,310 --> 02:04:33,840
because my again my focus has been so

3329
02:04:38,470 --> 02:04:36,320
heavily on on hollywood that i've i've

3330
02:04:40,550 --> 02:04:38,480
really neglected the film industries

3331
02:04:42,550 --> 02:04:40,560
despite being british but what i can say

3332
02:04:44,390 --> 02:04:42,560
on the uk front is that you know we

3333
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:44,400
really don't we like to think we have a

3334
02:04:48,310 --> 02:04:46,560
film industry but we really don't um

3335
02:04:49,910 --> 02:04:48,320
it's not to the extent you can actually

3336
02:04:53,109 --> 02:04:49,920
call it an industry

3337
02:04:55,350 --> 02:04:53,119
it's kind of a semi-industry um and we

3338
02:04:58,310 --> 02:04:55,360
don't make many genre films well you

3339
02:05:00,229 --> 02:04:58,320
know the history of british cinema is we

3340
02:05:02,629 --> 02:05:00,239
have a history of making socially

3341
02:05:04,550 --> 02:05:02,639
reflective films dramas we don't make

3342
02:05:05,589 --> 02:05:04,560
many science fiction films certainly as

3343
02:05:06,950 --> 02:05:05,599
the years have progressed we've been

3344
02:05:09,189 --> 02:05:06,960
involved in a lot of science fiction

3345
02:05:11,030 --> 02:05:09,199
films and had cross productions but

3346
02:05:12,790 --> 02:05:11,040
historically we don't have many science

3347
02:05:13,910 --> 02:05:12,800
fiction films we don't have many ufo

3348
02:05:15,030 --> 02:05:13,920
themed movies although you mentioned

3349
02:05:16,629 --> 02:05:15,040
quaker mass in the pit and there are

3350
02:05:17,990 --> 02:05:16,639
others there are a number of examples

3351
02:05:19,830 --> 02:05:18,000
over the years there's another one from

3352
02:05:21,109 --> 02:05:19,840
1969 called the body steelers as well

3353
02:05:22,870 --> 02:05:21,119
which is actually the first alien

3354
02:05:24,550 --> 02:05:22,880
abduction movie ever

3355
02:05:26,390 --> 02:05:24,560
but certainly the uk

3356
02:05:28,310 --> 02:05:26,400
film industry has a very different

3357
02:05:30,310 --> 02:05:28,320
relationship with official them than the

3358
02:05:31,109 --> 02:05:30,320
american industry the american industry

3359
02:05:33,030 --> 02:05:31,119
does

3360
02:05:35,189 --> 02:05:33,040
our film industry is much smaller and

3361
02:05:37,430 --> 02:05:35,199
our military is not smaller obviously as

3362
02:05:40,310 --> 02:05:37,440
well and the relationship is different

3363
02:05:42,149 --> 02:05:40,320
at the same time there are examples of

3364
02:05:44,629 --> 02:05:42,159
mi5 and things like that having

3365
02:05:46,070 --> 02:05:44,639
influenced um the content of productions

3366
02:05:48,310 --> 02:05:46,080
and i think there are some examples when

3367
02:05:49,990 --> 02:05:48,320
it comes to the james bond films as well

3368
02:05:52,310 --> 02:05:50,000
so the james bond films though are

3369
02:05:54,950 --> 02:05:52,320
produced by american companies even

3370
02:05:56,390 --> 02:05:54,960
though people from the uk are involved

3371
02:05:59,109 --> 02:05:56,400
that's right so a lot of what we a lot

3372
02:06:00,629 --> 02:05:59,119
of what we think of as as british films

3373
02:06:03,030 --> 02:06:00,639
are really not british films i mean it

3374
02:06:04,950 --> 02:06:03,040
depends on your definition of

3375
02:06:06,550 --> 02:06:04,960
what a national film is

3376
02:06:08,470 --> 02:06:06,560
sometimes our films will be populated

3377
02:06:10,310 --> 02:06:08,480
with with british actors but produced

3378
02:06:12,229 --> 02:06:10,320
entirely with american funds for example

3379
02:06:14,229 --> 02:06:12,239
largely with american funds and through

3380
02:06:16,310 --> 02:06:14,239
an american distributor

3381
02:06:18,790 --> 02:06:16,320
so is it british or is it american but

3382
02:06:21,189 --> 02:06:18,800
no the the short answer is is that we

3383
02:06:23,589 --> 02:06:21,199
don't really have a history of making uh

3384
02:06:26,310 --> 02:06:23,599
ufo themed productions in this country

3385
02:06:28,550 --> 02:06:26,320
um and it's certainly not movies the

3386
02:06:30,149 --> 02:06:28,560
relationship is not to the extent that

3387
02:06:31,669 --> 02:06:30,159
it is in america although certainly

3388
02:06:33,350 --> 02:06:31,679
there have been efforts in various

3389
02:06:34,870 --> 02:06:33,360
different genres um

3390
02:06:37,189 --> 02:06:34,880
to kind of monitor and manipulate

3391
02:06:39,589 --> 02:06:37,199
because any government in any country

3392
02:06:41,189 --> 02:06:39,599
recognizes the influence and power of

3393
02:06:43,830 --> 02:06:41,199
entertainment media and of hollywood and

3394
02:06:45,750 --> 02:06:43,840
of a movie generally uh this power to

3395
02:06:48,629 --> 02:06:45,760
narrative issues

3396
02:06:50,310 --> 02:06:48,639
what wasn't the original uh ufo tv show

3397
02:06:52,149 --> 02:06:50,320
wasn't that a british production uh in

3398
02:06:54,550 --> 02:06:52,159
the uh mid 60s

3399
02:06:57,990 --> 02:06:56,470
and again what was the name of the

3400
02:07:01,750 --> 02:06:58,000
purple hair chick that i was in love

3401
02:07:02,790 --> 02:07:01,760
with as a kid glad you're asking me now

3402
02:07:06,470 --> 02:07:02,800
i'm gonna

3403
02:07:09,669 --> 02:07:07,910
i was kind of joking

3404
02:07:12,069 --> 02:07:09,679
we're gonna have to

3405
02:07:13,910 --> 02:07:12,079
but i remember that there was some kind

3406
02:07:15,589 --> 02:07:13,920
of fear-mongering going on in that show

3407
02:07:17,589 --> 02:07:15,599
although i i don't really remember it

3408
02:07:19,430 --> 02:07:17,599
that way yeah i mean yeah and there were

3409
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:19,440
there were actually a few productions in

3410
02:07:23,350 --> 02:07:21,280
the set in the 60s 70s and things like

3411
02:07:25,510 --> 02:07:23,360
that um which were quite influential i

3412
02:07:27,990 --> 02:07:25,520
suppose but but most of these films are

3413
02:07:29,589 --> 02:07:28,000
made independent you know independent of

3414
02:07:31,990 --> 02:07:29,599
of um

3415
02:07:33,990 --> 02:07:32,000
of external influence so

3416
02:07:35,350 --> 02:07:34,000
as as far as the you know as far as you

3417
02:07:37,830 --> 02:07:35,360
know the russian industries because

3418
02:07:40,550 --> 02:07:37,840
again you know let's face it hollywood

3419
02:07:42,790 --> 02:07:40,560
is by far apart from bollywood

3420
02:07:45,910 --> 02:07:42,800
um hollywood is by far the biggest film

3421
02:07:49,510 --> 02:07:45,920
industry and uh and it's historic had a

3422
02:07:53,030 --> 02:07:49,520
much closer relationship with with uh

3423
02:07:55,109 --> 02:07:53,040
with its government than others have

3424
02:07:56,709 --> 02:07:55,119
at least in terms of ufo movies because

3425
02:07:58,870 --> 02:07:56,719
again again

3426
02:08:01,430 --> 02:07:58,880
although the ufo phenomenon is global

3427
02:08:04,310 --> 02:08:01,440
it's most historically associated and

3428
02:08:06,550 --> 02:08:04,320
culture associated with america

3429
02:08:08,709 --> 02:08:06,560
and it's also associated with southern

3430
02:08:11,109 --> 02:08:08,719
california i have a question here from

3431
02:08:14,790 --> 02:08:11,119
ravensview who's been a poster uh for

3432
02:08:17,030 --> 02:08:14,800
almost two years at forum.paracast.com

3433
02:08:19,109 --> 02:08:17,040
where our listeners and

3434
02:08:21,990 --> 02:08:19,119
forum posters can ask questions of our

3435
02:08:24,310 --> 02:08:22,000
guests and ravensview has one for you

3436
02:08:26,870 --> 02:08:24,320
southern color california has a rich

3437
02:08:27,830 --> 02:08:26,880
seam of mid-20th century ufo and occult

3438
02:08:30,069 --> 02:08:27,840
history

3439
02:08:32,470 --> 02:08:30,079
to what extent has the holly weird i

3440
02:08:34,310 --> 02:08:32,480
added that film industry been influenced

3441
02:08:36,470 --> 02:08:34,320
by the esoteric geography it finds

3442
02:08:38,390 --> 02:08:36,480
itself in and the contactees and the

3443
02:08:40,950 --> 02:08:38,400
magical practitioners that once and

3444
02:08:42,390 --> 02:08:40,960
still do populate it again

3445
02:08:44,870 --> 02:08:42,400
excellent question

3446
02:08:46,550 --> 02:08:44,880
um the the geography of the different

3447
02:08:49,830 --> 02:08:46,560
cultures um

3448
02:08:53,270 --> 02:08:49,840
i mean again my angle here so so i've

3449
02:08:55,030 --> 02:08:53,280
worked from an expertise in in

3450
02:08:56,790 --> 02:08:55,040
propaganda studies really when it comes

3451
02:08:58,709 --> 02:08:56,800
to hollywood post 911 specifically but

3452
02:09:00,550 --> 02:08:58,719
also historically uh when it comes to

3453
02:09:01,990 --> 02:09:00,560
hollywood more broadly not just ufos so

3454
02:09:03,750 --> 02:09:02,000
that's kind of my that's kind of my

3455
02:09:05,750 --> 02:09:03,760
angle really it's more of a straight on

3456
02:09:08,629 --> 02:09:05,760
angle

3457
02:09:10,950 --> 02:09:08,639
as relates specifically to ufos and and

3458
02:09:13,189 --> 02:09:10,960
the politics of that there are other

3459
02:09:15,270 --> 02:09:13,199
researchers who have produced

3460
02:09:17,910 --> 02:09:15,280
interesting material on the esoteric

3461
02:09:19,910 --> 02:09:17,920
angles of hollywood and uh magical

3462
02:09:20,950 --> 02:09:19,920
aspects of

3463
02:09:26,069 --> 02:09:20,960
of

3464
02:09:27,750 --> 02:09:26,079
but it's something that i myself have

3465
02:09:29,510 --> 02:09:27,760
not really delved into too much so i

3466
02:09:32,310 --> 02:09:29,520
wouldn't want to just sort of talk on

3467
02:09:33,830 --> 02:09:32,320
something i'm an expert in but um it's a

3468
02:09:36,069 --> 02:09:33,840
great question as far as for the the

3469
02:09:37,910 --> 02:09:36,079
landscape um

3470
02:09:39,589 --> 02:09:37,920
you know some people might be aware of

3471
02:09:40,950 --> 02:09:39,599
the um

3472
02:09:45,109 --> 02:09:40,960
uh

3473
02:09:47,109 --> 02:09:45,119
the fact that in hollywood there was a

3474
02:09:48,390 --> 02:09:47,119
uh lookout mountain which was a which

3475
02:09:50,310 --> 02:09:48,400
was a kind of a

3476
02:09:52,229 --> 02:09:50,320
covert film studio essentially a secret

3477
02:09:54,870 --> 02:09:52,239
film studio that was that was run by the

3478
02:09:55,910 --> 02:09:54,880
us government that made um

3479
02:09:57,830 --> 02:09:55,920
uh

3480
02:09:59,669 --> 02:09:57,840
basically it made kind of film reels for

3481
02:10:01,189 --> 02:09:59,679
propagandist purposes and there was a

3482
02:10:03,750 --> 02:10:01,199
lot of speculation that the hollywood

3483
02:10:06,629 --> 02:10:03,760
filmmakers um were involved in in these

3484
02:10:07,669 --> 02:10:06,639
practices uh and that some you you know

3485
02:10:10,069 --> 02:10:07,679
that

3486
02:10:12,550 --> 02:10:10,079
kind of uh various secret things were

3487
02:10:13,830 --> 02:10:12,560
shot you know with hollywood and so

3488
02:10:16,550 --> 02:10:13,840
that's let's break it then we'll

3489
02:10:18,650 --> 02:10:16,560
continue okay with gene and chris you're

3490
02:10:28,709 --> 02:10:18,660
in the park asked

3491
02:10:31,990 --> 02:10:28,719
[Music]

3492
02:10:32,910 --> 02:10:32,000
thank you for listening to gcn

3493
02:10:37,430 --> 02:10:32,920
visit

3494
02:10:41,430 --> 02:10:39,109
looking for that edge during those

3495
02:10:43,270 --> 02:10:41,440
intimate moments we see many ads for

3496
02:10:45,990 --> 02:10:43,280
enhancement but the side effects include

3497
02:10:47,990 --> 02:10:46,000
death at gcn team we should change the

3498
02:10:49,990 --> 02:10:48,000
healthy body brain and heart pack to the

3499
02:10:51,750 --> 02:10:50,000
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3500
02:10:54,229 --> 02:10:51,760
are not the only organs that require a

3501
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3502
02:11:00,629 --> 02:10:56,199
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3503
02:11:07,189 --> 02:11:03,669
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3504
02:11:12,629 --> 02:11:10,390
owed 10 000 or more to the irs get on

3505
02:11:15,109 --> 02:11:12,639
board with the tax admiral don't take on

3506
02:11:17,669 --> 02:11:15,119
the irs alone i'll cut penalties and

3507
02:11:20,310 --> 02:11:17,679
reduce your overall tax bill sometimes i

3508
02:11:22,390 --> 02:11:20,320
can even get it zeroed out completely

3509
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we're an a-rated company helping people

3510
02:11:27,109 --> 02:11:24,639
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3511
02:11:29,390 --> 02:11:27,119
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3512
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admiral call

3513
02:11:39,350 --> 02:11:31,280
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3514
02:11:44,149 --> 02:11:41,430
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3515
02:11:46,390 --> 02:11:44,159
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3516
02:11:48,950 --> 02:11:46,400
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3517
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3518
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3519
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3520
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3521
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3522
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3526
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3527
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3528
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3529
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3531
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3532
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3560
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3561
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a new one no i called geeks on site they

3562
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made an appointment to visit my home and

3563
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showed up the same day you mean they

3564
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didn't ask you to bring your computer to

3565
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a shop that's what happened when i

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[Music]

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1941 a date which will live in infamy

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remember pearl harbor now you can buy

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right now or go online to

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3590
02:14:40,520 --> 02:14:45,430
[Music]

3591
02:14:49,430 --> 02:14:47,270
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

3592
02:14:51,189 --> 02:14:49,440
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

3593
02:14:54,550 --> 02:14:51,199
disclosure and you are listening to the

3594
02:14:59,650 --> 02:14:54,560
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

3595
02:14:59,660 --> 02:15:03,350
[Music]

3596
02:15:08,229 --> 02:15:04,950
okay chris is

3597
02:15:10,470 --> 02:15:08,239
adopting new voices for every segment

3598
02:15:12,390 --> 02:15:10,480
we have no idea why he does that i have

3599
02:15:14,470 --> 02:15:12,400
an idea why the walking dead was done in

3600
02:15:16,470 --> 02:15:14,480
georgia i mean it's perfect location to

3601
02:15:18,950 --> 02:15:16,480
have a bunch of uh dead zombies walking

3602
02:15:20,149 --> 02:15:18,960
around i guess

3603
02:15:22,229 --> 02:15:20,159
anybody from georgia out there in the

3604
02:15:24,229 --> 02:15:22,239
listening audience that was a joke i

3605
02:15:25,350 --> 02:15:24,239
didn't mean it

3606
02:15:28,709 --> 02:15:25,360
all right

3607
02:15:29,990 --> 02:15:28,719
let us continue sir

3608
02:15:32,229 --> 02:15:30,000
it was

3609
02:15:34,390 --> 02:15:32,239
well you know here's a question that i

3610
02:15:35,589 --> 02:15:34,400
meant to ask earlier when we uh when you

3611
02:15:38,950 --> 02:15:35,599
brought up the

3612
02:15:40,790 --> 02:15:38,960
90s tv show dark skies we've had bryce

3613
02:15:41,669 --> 02:15:40,800
zabal on the on the show a number of

3614
02:15:43,990 --> 02:15:41,679
times

3615
02:15:44,790 --> 02:15:44,000
and uh john liengard

3616
02:15:46,870 --> 02:15:44,800
has

3617
02:15:49,589 --> 02:15:46,880
an article called 10 essential hollywood

3618
02:15:51,030 --> 02:15:49,599
ufo conspiracies and one of the things

3619
02:15:52,950 --> 02:15:51,040
in there that he

3620
02:15:55,990 --> 02:15:52,960
he mentions is something that you kind

3621
02:15:57,589 --> 02:15:56,000
of alluded at uh previously

3622
02:15:59,669 --> 02:15:57,599
he makes the observation the inclusion

3623
02:16:01,910 --> 02:15:59,679
of such intricate ufological detail and

3624
02:16:04,550 --> 02:16:01,920
dark skies apparently attracted the

3625
02:16:05,990 --> 02:16:04,560
attention of real government ufo spooks

3626
02:16:07,589 --> 02:16:06,000
leading to a series of bizarre

3627
02:16:09,350 --> 02:16:07,599
conversations with the individuals

3628
02:16:11,189 --> 02:16:09,360
claiming to be from u.s naval

3629
02:16:12,950 --> 02:16:11,199
intelligence who seem to have been

3630
02:16:15,350 --> 02:16:12,960
monitoring the development of the tv

3631
02:16:17,350 --> 02:16:15,360
show for zabel and i guess the producer

3632
02:16:19,270 --> 02:16:17,360
friedman their fiction had suddenly

3633
02:16:20,950 --> 02:16:19,280
become all too real and the spook

3634
02:16:22,870 --> 02:16:20,960
producers thought it best to have no

3635
02:16:26,149 --> 02:16:22,880
further contact with their mysterious

3636
02:16:28,870 --> 02:16:26,159
observers now bryce did kind of go into

3637
02:16:30,470 --> 02:16:28,880
some uh explanation about this but he

3638
02:16:32,870 --> 02:16:30,480
didn't he kind of beat around the bush a

3639
02:16:34,709 --> 02:16:32,880
little bit and didn't really give us i

3640
02:16:36,230 --> 02:16:34,719
think the bottom line on this what do

3641
02:16:39,589 --> 02:16:36,240
you know of this

3642
02:16:41,669 --> 02:16:39,599
particular claim of of interest by the

3643
02:16:43,910 --> 02:16:41,679
u.s naval intelligence or the office of

3644
02:16:46,230 --> 02:16:43,920
naval intelligence and their interest in

3645
02:16:48,549 --> 02:16:46,240
in the dark skies series well i know

3646
02:16:50,870 --> 02:16:48,559
what i only know what bryce told me um

3647
02:16:53,669 --> 02:16:50,880
i've you know spoken to bryce at length

3648
02:16:56,309 --> 02:16:53,679
about this and i had some input from

3649
02:16:57,990 --> 02:16:56,319
brent friedman as well um because his

3650
02:16:59,110 --> 02:16:58,000
co-creator on the show

3651
02:17:01,270 --> 02:16:59,120
and

3652
02:17:02,469 --> 02:17:01,280
yeah i gotta say

3653
02:17:04,709 --> 02:17:02,479
you know

3654
02:17:06,389 --> 02:17:04,719
uh i think

3655
02:17:08,870 --> 02:17:06,399
you know i think bryce does beat around

3656
02:17:10,469 --> 02:17:08,880
the bush on this to be honest um

3657
02:17:12,870 --> 02:17:10,479
i i think it makes him quite

3658
02:17:15,509 --> 02:17:12,880
uncomfortable um

3659
02:17:16,389 --> 02:17:15,519
because the way he he's related it and

3660
02:17:20,070 --> 02:17:16,399
you know

3661
02:17:22,070 --> 02:17:20,080
to this and that's that's that's fair

3662
02:17:24,389 --> 02:17:22,080
enough but but i think

3663
02:17:26,870 --> 02:17:24,399
you know i think that

3664
02:17:29,030 --> 02:17:26,880
what he related to me is very a very

3665
02:17:31,589 --> 02:17:29,040
very clear example

3666
02:17:33,030 --> 02:17:31,599
of a furtherance of this disinformation

3667
02:17:35,190 --> 02:17:33,040
campaign which was launched in the in

3668
02:17:37,589 --> 02:17:35,200
the 80s because everything

3669
02:17:39,910 --> 02:17:37,599
it ticks all the boxes what you had was

3670
02:17:41,750 --> 02:17:39,920
was i mean he said that you know bryce

3671
02:17:44,230 --> 02:17:41,760
said that he and brent

3672
02:17:46,790 --> 02:17:44,240
friedman were approached by these guys

3673
02:17:48,790 --> 02:17:46,800
who they were really convinced at the

3674
02:17:49,509 --> 02:17:48,800
time were the real deal they said that

3675
02:17:52,709 --> 02:17:49,519
they

3676
02:17:54,469 --> 02:17:52,719
look

3677
02:17:56,870 --> 02:17:54,479
and they were you know they did not mess

3678
02:17:59,589 --> 02:17:56,880
around these guys were serious and he

3679
02:18:01,270 --> 02:17:59,599
said that you know they turned up at

3680
02:18:03,429 --> 02:18:01,280
bryce's um

3681
02:18:05,030 --> 02:18:03,439
kind of rap party or

3682
02:18:07,830 --> 02:18:05,040
that they were having for the for the

3683
02:18:09,030 --> 02:18:07,840
show in 1996 and this was a private

3684
02:18:11,589 --> 02:18:09,040
gathering at

3685
02:18:13,990 --> 02:18:11,599
bryce's house in los angeles and there

3686
02:18:15,509 --> 02:18:14,000
were about 200 guests all invited all

3687
02:18:16,709 --> 02:18:15,519
from the cast and crew

3688
02:18:18,549 --> 02:18:16,719
and

3689
02:18:19,750 --> 02:18:18,559
to kind of keep it in theme

3690
02:18:22,950 --> 02:18:19,760
it had

3691
02:18:24,389 --> 02:18:22,960
badges kind of like a wink and a nudge

3692
02:18:27,190 --> 02:18:24,399
and the badges that they wore were

3693
02:18:29,750 --> 02:18:27,200
majestic 12 badges with their face on

3694
02:18:30,629 --> 02:18:29,760
them and id badges

3695
02:18:31,669 --> 02:18:30,639
and

3696
02:18:33,830 --> 02:18:31,679
so

3697
02:18:36,309 --> 02:18:33,840
about you know into the night they

3698
02:18:38,469 --> 02:18:36,319
realized that there's some guy there who

3699
02:18:40,469 --> 02:18:38,479
doesn't have a badge so obviously hasn't

3700
02:18:41,910 --> 02:18:40,479
been invited but he's at the party and

3701
02:18:44,230 --> 02:18:41,920
he approaches

3702
02:18:47,349 --> 02:18:44,240
bryce and brent in the kitchen

3703
02:18:49,190 --> 02:18:47,359
and says i'm paraphrasing but you know

3704
02:18:51,110 --> 02:18:49,200
we've seen your show

3705
02:18:52,790 --> 02:18:51,120
and we

3706
02:18:54,070 --> 02:18:52,800
like you know

3707
02:19:00,709 --> 02:18:54,080
some of it

3708
02:19:03,270 --> 02:19:00,719
and we want to help you get it right

3709
02:19:04,709 --> 02:19:03,280
and uh and they were like who the hell

3710
02:19:06,230 --> 02:19:04,719
are you

3711
02:19:08,389 --> 02:19:06,240
and he was this kind of youngish well

3712
02:19:09,990 --> 02:19:08,399
it's of late 20s early 30s preppy

3713
02:19:12,230 --> 02:19:10,000
looking guy they said

3714
02:19:14,469 --> 02:19:12,240
and and he said uh he said well it's not

3715
02:19:16,790 --> 02:19:14,479
important you know who i'm with but we

3716
02:19:18,230 --> 02:19:16,800
we can we can help you and um

3717
02:19:20,950 --> 02:19:18,240
and we'd like to talk to you further

3718
02:19:23,190 --> 02:19:20,960
about about your show and uh and bryce's

3719
02:19:25,349 --> 02:19:23,200
like you know how how has this guy even

3720
02:19:26,230 --> 02:19:25,359
seen the show because they've only you

3721
02:19:28,389 --> 02:19:26,240
know

3722
02:19:30,070 --> 02:19:28,399
it's not been screened publicly they've

3723
02:19:31,110 --> 02:19:30,080
only been private screenings of it at

3724
02:19:33,110 --> 02:19:31,120
this point

3725
02:19:35,349 --> 02:19:33,120
and the guys seem to even know the plot

3726
02:19:37,030 --> 02:19:35,359
details of further episodes that hadn't

3727
02:19:38,709 --> 02:19:37,040
even been filmed yet

3728
02:19:39,910 --> 02:19:38,719
uh you seem to have very very detailed

3729
02:19:41,429 --> 02:19:39,920
knowledge of the show and none of this

3730
02:19:42,309 --> 02:19:41,439
was public knowledge

3731
02:19:43,589 --> 02:19:42,319
so

3732
02:19:44,549 --> 02:19:43,599
they're a bit confused by this but

3733
02:19:45,990 --> 02:19:44,559
anyway

3734
02:19:48,150 --> 02:19:46,000
well they had to take them seriously

3735
02:19:49,590 --> 02:19:48,160
well yeah but they had 200 guests there

3736
02:19:50,870 --> 02:19:49,600
and breakfast players can't deal with it

3737
02:19:52,550 --> 02:19:50,880
i've got too many too much stuff going

3738
02:19:53,670 --> 02:19:52,560
on so um

3739
02:19:56,550 --> 02:19:53,680
they didn't really know what to think of

3740
02:20:00,070 --> 02:19:56,560
it and and honestly bryce um

3741
02:20:01,510 --> 02:20:00,080
although he's fascinated by the subject

3742
02:20:03,429 --> 02:20:01,520
he he's more fascinated in it from a

3743
02:20:04,309 --> 02:20:03,439
creative perspective

3744
02:20:06,550 --> 02:20:04,319
he's

3745
02:20:08,950 --> 02:20:06,560
he he genuinely doesn't know what to

3746
02:20:10,389 --> 02:20:08,960
believe when it comes to which you know

3747
02:20:11,349 --> 02:20:10,399
which is a good thing i mean he

3748
02:20:14,070 --> 02:20:11,359
genuinely doesn't kind of reach

3749
02:20:15,590 --> 02:20:14,080
conclusions about what the nature of

3750
02:20:18,150 --> 02:20:15,600
of the

3751
02:20:20,070 --> 02:20:18,160
official involvement is you know so he

3752
02:20:21,429 --> 02:20:20,080
he he's not really conspiratorially

3753
02:20:23,190 --> 02:20:21,439
minded although he's again he's

3754
02:20:24,870 --> 02:20:23,200
interested in that stuff from a creative

3755
02:20:26,630 --> 02:20:24,880
perspective but he's not actually a

3756
02:20:28,309 --> 02:20:26,640
conspiracy theorist i think he finds

3757
02:20:30,469 --> 02:20:28,319
conspiracy theory interesting but he's

3758
02:20:33,349 --> 02:20:30,479
not a conspiracy theorist so

3759
02:20:34,950 --> 02:20:33,359
it was deeply exciting him at the time

3760
02:20:37,429 --> 02:20:34,960
um this guy approaching that's the

3761
02:20:40,309 --> 02:20:37,439
impression i get and uh

3762
02:20:42,550 --> 02:20:40,319
but then after the party had ended um

3763
02:20:44,469 --> 02:20:42,560
this guy made contact with him again i

3764
02:20:45,590 --> 02:20:44,479
think or he went in brent and spoke to

3765
02:20:47,990 --> 02:20:45,600
brent moore

3766
02:20:49,670 --> 02:20:48,000
and then brent said um okay let's

3767
02:20:51,750 --> 02:20:49,680
arrange a meeting

3768
02:20:54,790 --> 02:20:51,760
and they had a meeting

3769
02:20:55,670 --> 02:20:54,800
at bryson brent's office hollywood and

3770
02:20:57,110 --> 02:20:55,680
uh

3771
02:20:59,110 --> 02:20:57,120
this time the guy

3772
02:21:01,270 --> 02:20:59,120
showed up with two of the guys

3773
02:21:03,190 --> 02:21:01,280
um another guy who was a young another

3774
02:21:05,030 --> 02:21:03,200
young guy and an older guy

3775
02:21:06,230 --> 02:21:05,040
and they said that they spoke to them

3776
02:21:07,510 --> 02:21:06,240
for about two hours they had this

3777
02:21:08,630 --> 02:21:07,520
meeting that went up for like two hours

3778
02:21:10,830 --> 02:21:08,640
and these guys

3779
02:21:14,150 --> 02:21:10,840
told them all sorts of stuff about you

3780
02:21:16,389 --> 02:21:14,160
know the government and ufos and

3781
02:21:19,670 --> 02:21:16,399
spun a whole very convincing

3782
02:21:23,990 --> 02:21:19,680
very layered detailed narrative

3783
02:21:25,110 --> 02:21:24,000
and they you know they showed them uh

3784
02:21:26,070 --> 02:21:25,120
and then they were getting quite these

3785
02:21:28,070 --> 02:21:26,080
guys apparently were getting really

3786
02:21:29,990 --> 02:21:28,080
angry with bryce and ben brent they were

3787
02:21:31,910 --> 02:21:30,000
kind of like shouting at some points and

3788
02:21:32,870 --> 02:21:31,920
they were kind of swearing and you know

3789
02:21:34,710 --> 02:21:32,880
you guys don't even know what the hell

3790
02:21:36,630 --> 02:21:34,720
you're messing with here you can't just

3791
02:21:38,550 --> 02:21:36,640
put this stuff on screen and you know we

3792
02:21:41,270 --> 02:21:38,560
need to help you get it right and they

3793
02:21:42,389 --> 02:21:41,280
pulled out some vial of um

3794
02:21:44,389 --> 02:21:42,399
of

3795
02:21:46,070 --> 02:21:44,399
liquid gold or something and put it on

3796
02:21:47,670 --> 02:21:46,080
put it on the table and said you guys

3797
02:21:49,349 --> 02:21:47,680
don't even have this you know you don't

3798
02:21:50,710 --> 02:21:49,359
even have this in your show like you

3799
02:21:51,990 --> 02:21:50,720
don't even know what the hell what the

3800
02:21:53,750 --> 02:21:52,000
hell you're dealing with and they're

3801
02:21:55,990 --> 02:21:53,760
like well they didn't even know what to

3802
02:21:57,270 --> 02:21:56,000
make of of what you know of this they

3803
02:21:58,550 --> 02:21:57,280
were really confused and a little bit

3804
02:22:00,469 --> 02:21:58,560
freaked out

3805
02:22:02,389 --> 02:22:00,479
and uh and the guy said look if you want

3806
02:22:04,630 --> 02:22:02,399
to we'll we'll we want another meeting

3807
02:22:06,950 --> 02:22:04,640
with you but we can introduce you to the

3808
02:22:08,710 --> 02:22:06,960
big guy to the boss

3809
02:22:10,630 --> 02:22:08,720
and if i should clarify these guys said

3810
02:22:11,510 --> 02:22:10,640
that they were with naval intelligence

3811
02:22:14,309 --> 02:22:11,520
they said they were with naval

3812
02:22:15,750 --> 02:22:14,319
intelligence and um and bryce and

3813
02:22:18,070 --> 02:22:15,760
brenson

3814
02:22:19,510 --> 02:22:18,080
these guys looked the part they looked

3815
02:22:21,030 --> 02:22:19,520
um

3816
02:22:22,790 --> 02:22:21,040
like military guys they looked like

3817
02:22:24,710 --> 02:22:22,800
special forces guys they look they said

3818
02:22:27,429 --> 02:22:24,720
they look like seals like like navy

3819
02:22:28,630 --> 02:22:27,439
seals um and they

3820
02:22:30,070 --> 02:22:28,640
you know that everything about was

3821
02:22:31,670 --> 02:22:30,080
totally convincing

3822
02:22:33,349 --> 02:22:31,680
and uh

3823
02:22:35,590 --> 02:22:33,359
so

3824
02:22:38,070 --> 02:22:35,600
you know and if it was a hoax like

3825
02:22:40,150 --> 02:22:38,080
for what to what end you know

3826
02:22:41,590 --> 02:22:40,160
what's the purpose of the hoax like if

3827
02:22:43,429 --> 02:22:41,600
it's just a couple of actors you know

3828
02:22:44,790 --> 02:22:43,439
pranksters or whatever how would the

3829
02:22:46,070 --> 02:22:44,800
wind of the party how would they get all

3830
02:22:48,550 --> 02:22:46,080
of this information how would they know

3831
02:22:50,230 --> 02:22:48,560
about the script you know so

3832
02:22:52,309 --> 02:22:50,240
the indication is is that there probably

3833
02:22:54,710 --> 02:22:52,319
was some government agency monitoring

3834
02:22:57,110 --> 02:22:54,720
the show for obvious reasons uh because

3835
02:22:58,309 --> 02:22:57,120
it's heavily explicitly for logical

3836
02:23:00,389 --> 02:22:58,319
and does shape

3837
02:23:02,469 --> 02:23:00,399
popular perception and it's a potential

3838
02:23:04,469 --> 02:23:02,479
disinformation opportunity to get

3839
02:23:05,830 --> 02:23:04,479
involved with so so

3840
02:23:07,750 --> 02:23:05,840
so these guys i mean so they said look

3841
02:23:08,950 --> 02:23:07,760
we can introduce you to the big guy

3842
02:23:10,790 --> 02:23:08,960
but um

3843
02:23:12,389 --> 02:23:10,800
but in uh in order to do so you're gonna

3844
02:23:13,590 --> 02:23:12,399
have to meet him

3845
02:23:15,830 --> 02:23:13,600
where we say

3846
02:23:19,830 --> 02:23:15,840
and then they later told them that the

3847
02:23:21,830 --> 02:23:19,840
meeting place was a cemetery at midnight

3848
02:23:22,950 --> 02:23:21,840
oh you're kidding me

3849
02:23:24,630 --> 02:23:22,960
no

3850
02:23:26,309 --> 02:23:24,640
this is fascinating see i never heard

3851
02:23:28,230 --> 02:23:26,319
any of these details

3852
02:23:30,389 --> 02:23:28,240
and so bryce at that point said right

3853
02:23:33,270 --> 02:23:30,399
that's it i'm out

3854
02:23:36,230 --> 02:23:33,280
he said i'm out like i've got a wife and

3855
02:23:37,750 --> 02:23:36,240
kids and i've got a show to run and i

3856
02:23:39,349 --> 02:23:37,760
want nothing more to do with you i don't

3857
02:23:41,510 --> 02:23:39,359
want any part of this and that was that

3858
02:23:42,950 --> 02:23:41,520
and so i think the guys caught i think

3859
02:23:44,550 --> 02:23:42,960
those military guys or whoever they were

3860
02:23:47,349 --> 02:23:44,560
they called brent maybe a couple more

3861
02:23:51,110 --> 02:23:47,359
times after that but that was it

3862
02:23:53,510 --> 02:23:51,120
oh okay folks i'm liking that oh yes

3863
02:23:55,990 --> 02:23:53,520
that's fascinating what's fascinating is

3864
02:23:58,070 --> 02:23:56,000
our second radio show after the power

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cast to be able to get that show you

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have to be a member of the powercast

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plus the one and only way go to

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transcripts we've introduced a video

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channel and we give you the ad free

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version of this show with higher quality

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audio one more segment

3873
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okay

3874
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one more segment with robbie graham with

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you are listening to gcn

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visit

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[Music]

3942
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the body what it needs to be satisfied

3970
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again

3971
02:28:52,389 --> 02:28:50,630
this is robert hastings author of ufos

3972
02:28:55,030 --> 02:28:52,399
and nukes and you're listening to the

3973
02:29:01,590 --> 02:28:55,040
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

3974
02:29:05,030 --> 02:29:03,349
we don't have a lot of time left for

3975
02:29:07,110 --> 02:29:05,040
robbie graham i want to ask you a couple

3976
02:29:09,429 --> 02:29:07,120
of quick questions quick answers

3977
02:29:11,590 --> 02:29:09,439
that we kind of left on the table and

3978
02:29:14,230 --> 02:29:11,600
didn't get to what attracted you to the

3979
02:29:17,110 --> 02:29:14,240
subject of ufos and film well my

3980
02:29:19,510 --> 02:29:17,120
interest in ufos uh predates my interest

3981
02:29:21,510 --> 02:29:19,520
in or my my kind of academic interest in

3982
02:29:23,429 --> 02:29:21,520
film i've always been interested in ufos

3983
02:29:24,469 --> 02:29:23,439
since my childhood always been

3984
02:29:27,270 --> 02:29:24,479
interested in the weird and the

3985
02:29:29,830 --> 02:29:27,280
wonderful and uh never really seen

3986
02:29:30,870 --> 02:29:29,840
anything amazing in terms of ufos i've

3987
02:29:32,550 --> 02:29:30,880
seen a few

3988
02:29:34,870 --> 02:29:32,560
things that could you know loosely be

3989
02:29:37,590 --> 02:29:34,880
defined as unidentified flying objects

3990
02:29:39,910 --> 02:29:37,600
but uh you know for ufos for me have

3991
02:29:41,429 --> 02:29:39,920
always represented you know that

3992
02:29:43,270 --> 02:29:41,439
and i think this is what appeals to a

3993
02:29:44,469 --> 02:29:43,280
lot of people when it comes to ufos

3994
02:29:46,630 --> 02:29:44,479
they've always represented this sort of

3995
02:29:48,950 --> 02:29:46,640
glimmer of hope for humanity they offer

3996
02:29:51,750 --> 02:29:48,960
us a glimpse into this broader reality

3997
02:29:53,830 --> 02:29:51,760
into you know an expanded universe where

3998
02:29:56,710 --> 02:29:53,840
anything's possible and where

3999
02:29:58,790 --> 02:29:56,720
us primitive humans can have the chance

4000
02:30:00,070 --> 02:29:58,800
to see past superficial differences and

4001
02:30:02,230 --> 02:30:00,080
recognize that we're all part of the

4002
02:30:04,710 --> 02:30:02,240
same species in this tiny planet in this

4003
02:30:06,070 --> 02:30:04,720
limitless universe so so that was that

4004
02:30:09,830 --> 02:30:06,080
was something i think subconsciously

4005
02:30:11,030 --> 02:30:09,840
drew drew me to this subject um in my

4006
02:30:12,950 --> 02:30:11,040
late

4007
02:30:14,630 --> 02:30:12,960
teens i started to become interested in

4008
02:30:15,590 --> 02:30:14,640
films because i started to study film at

4009
02:30:17,670 --> 02:30:15,600
college

4010
02:30:19,830 --> 02:30:17,680
and then i went to university and went

4011
02:30:22,150 --> 02:30:19,840
on to do a master's degree and so so i

4012
02:30:25,030 --> 02:30:22,160
academically just was it was focused on

4013
02:30:26,870 --> 02:30:25,040
on film and that became my real passion

4014
02:30:28,230 --> 02:30:26,880
in life but my interest in ufos never

4015
02:30:31,030 --> 02:30:28,240
went away and then and then in my

4016
02:30:33,670 --> 02:30:31,040
mid-20s i decided to start to merge my

4017
02:30:35,429 --> 02:30:33,680
interests in ufos in film because i did

4018
02:30:37,030 --> 02:30:35,439
start to recognize that

4019
02:30:38,389 --> 02:30:37,040
although people as i say people in the

4020
02:30:41,349 --> 02:30:38,399
ufo field

4021
02:30:43,510 --> 02:30:41,359
have a general interest in ufo movie

4022
02:30:45,429 --> 02:30:43,520
very few people actually or no one that

4023
02:30:46,790 --> 02:30:45,439
i could see was was looking exclusively

4024
02:30:48,870 --> 02:30:46,800
at the interplay between ufos and

4025
02:30:50,469 --> 02:30:48,880
hollywood in a serious way with a

4026
02:30:52,870 --> 02:30:50,479
grounding in in

4027
02:30:54,309 --> 02:30:52,880
in film studies and so what i saw was

4028
02:30:56,309 --> 02:30:54,319
that two two other people had written

4029
02:30:58,070 --> 02:30:56,319
books on the interplay between ufos and

4030
02:31:01,110 --> 02:30:58,080
hot people but those books were

4031
02:31:02,389 --> 02:31:01,120
now today 16 17 years out of date

4032
02:31:03,830 --> 02:31:02,399
um no one has written anything

4033
02:31:05,110 --> 02:31:03,840
exclusively on this topic for a long

4034
02:31:06,710 --> 02:31:05,120
long time

4035
02:31:08,230 --> 02:31:06,720
and so i think it just it needed it

4036
02:31:09,590 --> 02:31:08,240
needed clarity and i was i was

4037
02:31:11,349 --> 02:31:09,600
interested in it i was interested in

4038
02:31:12,630 --> 02:31:11,359
this question then i started to do as a

4039
02:31:13,990 --> 02:31:12,640
phd

4040
02:31:15,349 --> 02:31:14,000
i spent three years on it and then

4041
02:31:17,830 --> 02:31:15,359
ultimately decided to take it down a

4042
02:31:19,830 --> 02:31:17,840
more populist route and it turned out to

4043
02:31:20,870 --> 02:31:19,840
be the book so it's it's something

4044
02:31:22,950 --> 02:31:20,880
that's just

4045
02:31:25,270 --> 02:31:22,960
kind of welled up in me for for a long

4046
02:31:27,590 --> 02:31:25,280
time and and i finally

4047
02:31:29,670 --> 02:31:27,600
finally got it out

4048
02:31:33,750 --> 02:31:29,680
chris yeah i was going to say a marriage

4049
02:31:35,510 --> 02:31:33,760
made in uh inner space or something um

4050
02:31:37,270 --> 02:31:35,520
this is a question i wanted to ask

4051
02:31:40,150 --> 02:31:37,280
before we run out of time this is a very

4052
02:31:42,710 --> 02:31:40,160
good one from eric the red and he says

4053
02:31:45,030 --> 02:31:42,720
you can posit a continuum along which

4054
02:31:46,309 --> 02:31:45,040
aliens are depicted in film at one end

4055
02:31:47,910 --> 02:31:46,319
would be aliens that are a little more

4056
02:31:49,830 --> 02:31:47,920
than mirrors of humanity in all our

4057
02:31:52,070 --> 02:31:49,840
limitations at the other end would be

4058
02:31:54,950 --> 02:31:52,080
conceptions of the alien that thwart

4059
02:31:57,750 --> 02:31:54,960
many or most of our familiar categories

4060
02:32:00,550 --> 02:31:57,760
and basically defy comprehension his

4061
02:32:02,309 --> 02:32:00,560
question is is there any trend in film

4062
02:32:05,429 --> 02:32:02,319
over the past decades that depicts

4063
02:32:07,830 --> 02:32:05,439
aliens as more unknown than known more

4064
02:32:10,230 --> 02:32:07,840
incomprehensible than familiar and if

4065
02:32:12,630 --> 02:32:10,240
you do see a trend what explains it and

4066
02:32:13,590 --> 02:32:12,640
where are those cool films now

4067
02:32:15,349 --> 02:32:13,600
i had

4068
02:32:17,429 --> 02:32:15,359
great question um

4069
02:32:19,510 --> 02:32:17,439
there have been a handful so it's not a

4070
02:32:21,349 --> 02:32:19,520
trend uh there have been there have been

4071
02:32:23,510 --> 02:32:21,359
a number of films and tv products over

4072
02:32:25,510 --> 02:32:23,520
the years which have sought to

4073
02:32:26,550 --> 02:32:25,520
put across the image of the alien as

4074
02:32:28,389 --> 02:32:26,560
being something that is more

4075
02:32:29,349 --> 02:32:28,399
incomprehensible yeah

4076
02:32:31,590 --> 02:32:29,359
classic

4077
02:32:33,670 --> 02:32:31,600
right well yeah but i mean it but even

4078
02:32:35,429 --> 02:32:33,680
even uh even more bizarre than that you

4079
02:32:37,910 --> 02:32:35,439
know so some things where where it's

4080
02:32:40,309 --> 02:32:37,920
even harder to kind of put a label on on

4081
02:32:42,230 --> 02:32:40,319
what we're dealing with in terms of just

4082
02:32:45,510 --> 02:32:42,240
other worldly intelligences that are not

4083
02:32:47,910 --> 02:32:45,520
even corporeal but those are the

4084
02:32:51,510 --> 02:32:47,920
exception rather than the rule the trend

4085
02:32:53,910 --> 02:32:51,520
which is is very clearly observable is

4086
02:32:55,830 --> 02:32:53,920
again i've referred to it earlier the

4087
02:32:58,389 --> 02:32:55,840
trend is that as a new generation of

4088
02:33:00,309 --> 02:32:58,399
filmmakers has has come to the fore this

4089
02:33:01,910 --> 02:33:00,319
generation of filmmakers has been born

4090
02:33:05,670 --> 02:33:01,920
into a culture

4091
02:33:08,630 --> 02:33:05,680
uh where where what was fringe culture

4092
02:33:10,550 --> 02:33:08,640
is now pop culture and so the ufo

4093
02:33:12,950 --> 02:33:10,560
mythology is now part of our pop

4094
02:33:16,550 --> 02:33:12,960
cultural landscape and most people

4095
02:33:19,510 --> 02:33:16,560
nowadays have some notion of what uh

4096
02:33:21,670 --> 02:33:19,520
area 51 is of what a grey alien is of

4097
02:33:23,590 --> 02:33:21,680
what roswell might represent albeit

4098
02:33:25,110 --> 02:33:23,600
skewed in distorted notions but we all

4099
02:33:26,550 --> 02:33:25,120
have these ideas and we and we all see

4100
02:33:27,990 --> 02:33:26,560
the uf you know the so-called ufo

4101
02:33:29,510 --> 02:33:28,000
footage on youtube and it's just part of

4102
02:33:30,630 --> 02:33:29,520
the cultural landscape now this wasn't

4103
02:33:32,630 --> 02:33:30,640
always the case and this has happened

4104
02:33:33,590 --> 02:33:32,640
fairly rapidly over sort of a 10-15 year

4105
02:33:35,270 --> 02:33:33,600
period

4106
02:33:37,270 --> 02:33:35,280
but new filmmakers are being born into

4107
02:33:38,630 --> 02:33:37,280
this into this landscape

4108
02:33:40,870 --> 02:33:38,640
and what they're doing is they're very

4109
02:33:43,030 --> 02:33:40,880
consciously drawing from this rich

4110
02:33:44,469 --> 02:33:43,040
mythology and they're incorporating it

4111
02:33:47,190 --> 02:33:44,479
into their narrative

4112
02:33:49,110 --> 02:33:47,200
narratives

4113
02:33:50,710 --> 02:33:49,120
and so what they're doing is they're

4114
02:33:52,790 --> 02:33:50,720
drawing from the archetypes they're

4115
02:33:55,750 --> 02:33:52,800
drawing from the the iconography which

4116
02:33:57,110 --> 02:33:55,760
is the classic flying sources although

4117
02:33:59,670 --> 02:33:57,120
a lot of hollywood filmmakers go out of

4118
02:34:01,270 --> 02:33:59,680
their way now not to have

4119
02:34:02,469 --> 02:34:01,280
you know very stereotypical flying

4120
02:34:04,790 --> 02:34:02,479
sources because they see that as being

4121
02:34:07,429 --> 02:34:04,800
too cliched so they'll kind of often

4122
02:34:09,110 --> 02:34:07,439
make you know creative uh amendments to

4123
02:34:11,510 --> 02:34:09,120
the to the source of image but it'll

4124
02:34:14,070 --> 02:34:11,520
still be vaguely sort of shaped and then

4125
02:34:16,389 --> 02:34:14,080
you'll have uh you know to a huge to a

4126
02:34:19,429 --> 02:34:16,399
huge extent you see the you know

4127
02:34:21,190 --> 02:34:19,439
variants on the archetypal grey image

4128
02:34:23,110 --> 02:34:21,200
you know the big head the spindly body

4129
02:34:24,550 --> 02:34:23,120
the large eyes a lot of the movies over

4130
02:34:26,950 --> 02:34:24,560
the past few years

4131
02:34:29,590 --> 02:34:26,960
especially in the horror genre uh sci-fi

4132
02:34:31,910 --> 02:34:29,600
horror genre have drawn from this image

4133
02:34:35,190 --> 02:34:31,920
and so what you're seeing is is the

4134
02:34:36,870 --> 02:34:35,200
inclusion much more so of logical detail

4135
02:34:40,150 --> 02:34:36,880
in these in these narratives and that's

4136
02:34:42,469 --> 02:34:40,160
the trend and the trend is also um found

4137
02:34:44,870 --> 02:34:42,479
footage now as well so it's a conscious

4138
02:34:47,590 --> 02:34:44,880
effort not only to blurs back in fantasy

4139
02:34:49,270 --> 02:34:47,600
at a narrative level but also at a

4140
02:34:50,790 --> 02:34:49,280
practical level in terms of filmmaking

4141
02:34:55,270 --> 02:34:50,800
technique as well so you're having faux

4142
02:34:56,870 --> 02:34:55,280
documentary style movies being produced

4143
02:34:58,790 --> 02:34:56,880
and that's the reason that that's the

4144
02:34:59,830 --> 02:34:58,800
main reason they're male 1 you know that

4145
02:35:01,429 --> 02:34:59,840
is the reason they're made because it's

4146
02:35:02,550 --> 02:35:01,439
easier to make when they're very cheap

4147
02:35:04,950 --> 02:35:02,560
to produce

4148
02:35:06,469 --> 02:35:04,960
and the result i mean that i've observed

4149
02:35:09,830 --> 02:35:06,479
is some people perhaps less

4150
02:35:11,030 --> 02:35:09,840
sophisticated studios really aren't sure

4151
02:35:12,469 --> 02:35:11,040
what to believe when they see things

4152
02:35:15,349 --> 02:35:12,479
like the fourth kind which came out in

4153
02:35:17,830 --> 02:35:15,359
2009 which reported to be you know real

4154
02:35:20,710 --> 02:35:17,840
events shown alongside dramatic

4155
02:35:23,110 --> 02:35:20,720
reconstructions of these mass abductions

4156
02:35:25,830 --> 02:35:23,120
in in alaska

4157
02:35:26,870 --> 02:35:25,840
that film was was faux documentary style

4158
02:35:28,550 --> 02:35:26,880
and then you've had a number of other

4159
02:35:32,309 --> 02:35:28,560
films like alien abduction which came

4160
02:35:33,990 --> 02:35:32,319
out in 2014 um again featuring grays and

4161
02:35:35,750 --> 02:35:34,000
and things like that and so a lot of

4162
02:35:38,230 --> 02:35:35,760
these films the trend is is that they're

4163
02:35:39,750 --> 02:35:38,240
really incorporating the the archetypal

4164
02:35:43,270 --> 02:35:39,760
ufological

4165
02:35:45,110 --> 02:35:43,280
imagery um and themes abduction mutilate

4166
02:35:46,550 --> 02:35:45,120
cattlemen like all the dark themes of

4167
02:35:49,510 --> 02:35:46,560
course because that's what sells you

4168
02:35:51,750 --> 02:35:49,520
know um you don't often get many films

4169
02:35:53,830 --> 02:35:51,760
about benevolent contact or peaceful

4170
02:35:57,190 --> 02:35:53,840
telepathic contact with space brothers

4171
02:35:59,990 --> 02:35:57,200
anymore because it's harder to write

4172
02:36:01,830 --> 02:36:00,000
creatively you know it's um it's uh it's

4173
02:36:03,429 --> 02:36:01,840
hard as you say most

4174
02:36:06,830 --> 02:36:03,439
films they dumb down

4175
02:36:09,910 --> 02:36:06,840
now um in any genre for

4176
02:36:11,670 --> 02:36:09,920
yourselves cells fear cells and love is

4177
02:36:14,469 --> 02:36:11,680
harder to sell when it comes to when it

4178
02:36:16,870 --> 02:36:14,479
comes to a subject like this at least

4179
02:36:18,710 --> 02:36:16,880
in this day and age even superman

4180
02:36:21,030 --> 02:36:18,720
can't be the good guy he has to kill

4181
02:36:22,550 --> 02:36:21,040
people like in man of steel he killed

4182
02:36:24,870 --> 02:36:22,560
general zod

4183
02:36:27,590 --> 02:36:24,880
and as some of you already know there's

4184
02:36:29,270 --> 02:36:27,600
lots and lots of gratuitous violence in

4185
02:36:30,950 --> 02:36:29,280
batman v superman

4186
02:36:32,710 --> 02:36:30,960
for listeners who want to follow through

4187
02:36:34,150 --> 02:36:32,720
on more of the stuff that you do robbie

4188
02:36:36,870 --> 02:36:34,160
graham would you tell them where they

4189
02:36:38,790 --> 02:36:36,880
can find you yeah my uh my website is

4190
02:36:40,070 --> 02:36:38,800
silverscreensources.uk

4191
02:36:41,429 --> 02:36:40,080
or you can just you know you can just

4192
02:36:42,950 --> 02:36:41,439
search for it online and you'll find it

4193
02:36:45,110 --> 02:36:42,960
in any search engine silverscreen

4194
02:36:47,429 --> 02:36:45,120
sources it's got my website links to the

4195
02:36:49,910 --> 02:36:47,439
book various links to other articles and

4196
02:36:51,910 --> 02:36:49,920
things like that i appreciate your your

4197
02:36:53,910 --> 02:36:51,920
time are you planning a second book on

4198
02:36:55,750 --> 02:36:53,920
the subject on this particular subject

4199
02:36:58,070 --> 02:36:55,760
well what i might do in a few years time

4200
02:36:59,990 --> 02:36:58,080
in maybe two or three years time is do a

4201
02:37:02,469 --> 02:37:00,000
revised and expanded edition of this

4202
02:37:04,230 --> 02:37:02,479
book um but it will only be a few a few

4203
02:37:05,750 --> 02:37:04,240
amendments and a few more case studies

4204
02:37:09,590 --> 02:37:05,760
but i might just be a few years down the

4205
02:37:12,630 --> 02:37:09,600
road um and then i am dabbling

4206
02:37:15,110 --> 02:37:12,640
with the idea of doing similar book but

4207
02:37:17,750 --> 02:37:15,120
on broader paranormal subjects so the

4208
02:37:20,150 --> 02:37:17,760
again the fact and fantasy of paranormal

4209
02:37:21,830 --> 02:37:20,160
uh a broader paranormal phenomena

4210
02:37:23,670 --> 02:37:21,840
so hollywood's engagement with all sorts

4211
02:37:25,670 --> 02:37:23,680
of psychic and paranormal and

4212
02:37:27,910 --> 02:37:25,680
cryptozoological phenomena

4213
02:37:29,190 --> 02:37:27,920
you can find us on twitter

4214
02:37:31,270 --> 02:37:29,200
go look for

4215
02:37:33,990 --> 02:37:31,280
the powercast look for the powercast on

4216
02:37:36,550 --> 02:37:34,000
twitter look for two power cast fan

4217
02:37:39,110 --> 02:37:36,560
clubs on facebook one's a group one's a

4218
02:37:41,190 --> 02:37:39,120
community don't ask me to explain why

4219
02:37:43,190 --> 02:37:41,200
you have to have one or the other just

4220
02:37:44,870 --> 02:37:43,200
join both we appreciate that we'd

4221
02:37:47,670 --> 02:37:44,880
appreciate it if you listen to our other

4222
02:37:50,070 --> 02:37:47,680
radio show it's called after the power

4223
02:37:51,990 --> 02:37:50,080
cast what is it well we have extended

4224
02:37:54,469 --> 02:37:52,000
interviews with guests that continue

4225
02:37:56,710 --> 02:37:54,479
from the main episode of the power cast

4226
02:37:58,389 --> 02:37:56,720
we have color commentary we talk about

4227
02:38:00,070 --> 02:37:58,399
the stay of the world

4228
02:38:01,110 --> 02:38:00,080
and our own state depending on how

4229
02:38:01,910 --> 02:38:01,120
things are

4230
02:38:06,630 --> 02:38:01,920
to

4231
02:38:07,550 --> 02:38:06,640
powercast plus

4232
02:38:11,110 --> 02:38:07,560
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4233
02:38:13,510 --> 02:38:11,120
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4234
02:38:16,790 --> 02:38:13,520
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02:38:18,630 --> 02:38:16,800
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02:38:23,510 --> 02:38:21,040
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02:38:25,590 --> 02:38:23,520
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02:38:26,550 --> 02:38:25,600
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4240
02:38:28,870 --> 02:38:26,560
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02:38:30,389 --> 02:38:28,880
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02:38:32,910 --> 02:38:30,399
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02:38:34,790 --> 02:38:32,920
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plus.thepowercast.com once again go to

4245
02:38:39,110 --> 02:38:37,600
plus.powercast.com

4246
02:38:41,349 --> 02:38:39,120
robbie graham

4247
02:38:42,630 --> 02:38:41,359
silver screen saucers

4248
02:38:44,070 --> 02:38:42,640
is a fun book

4249
02:38:51,100 --> 02:38:44,080
thank you for joining us on the power

4250
02:38:51,110 --> 02:38:54,389
[Music]

4251
02:39:00,070 --> 02:38:57,190
the paracast featuring gene steinberg

4252
02:39:03,110 --> 02:39:00,080
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4253
02:39:04,790 --> 02:39:03,120
presentation of making the impossible

4254
02:39:08,950 --> 02:39:04,800
incorporated